Gender again. Sorry!

[multitool]

View: https://youtu.be/pvV0baH1Edg?si=Qg-N_s99mj_JtQ0a

Christ

You really are a sucker for this sort of stuff aren't you.

 

[Deleted member 159]

I don't have to. You see this is not how debate/discussion works. If you claim something, then the onus is on you to back it up.

If you don't have the data to back up what you say, that's fine, I can just carry on considering you an idiot.

That's not how it works, I'm on the side of facts.

You're on the ideology platform.

You need to convince me, the majority that this trans thing is real.

As yet it's all about feelings

 

[AndyRM]

I too suffered from it, from time to time, I wish I wasn't so handsome

As yet, it's all about feelings.

 

[AuroraSaab]

From the same piece
"Despite safety concerns and the lack of trial evidence, when all conservative measures have been exhausted and natural augmentation has failed, the use of domperidone may be considered.5 The mother should have no cardiac comorbidities and be fully aware of the risks of the medication."

So as a last resort with mothers then and it has risks. Used by mothers for a short period, not needed all the time they are breastfeeding.... compared to using it in males in 3x the normal dose, needed all the time on top of all the other drugs to produce a small amount of 'milk' rather than as a kick start.

QC is right for once. How ridiculous it is to even be discussing the legitimacy of newborns sucking male nipples to get a miniscule amount of secretion.

Research from Finland suggests young people who undergo gender reassignment do not have a higher suicide risk.

If you don't have the data to back up what you say, that's fine, I can just carry on considering you an idiot.

Here you go:

Full research paper:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ices_in_Finland_in_1996-2019_a_register_study

1. Young people who were gender reassigned did not have a higher incidence of suicide than the control group. The idea that gender reassignment is necessary or these kids will kill themselves is 'not supported'.

2. Gender reassignment (in this study this means at least meds btw) has not been shown to reduce suicidal ideation.

3. Young people having gender dysphoria is not a predictor of likelihood of suicide. The risk has been overestimated.

This was a large study of 2083 individuals who had been referred to gender clinics, up to age 23, with a similar cohort control group of 16, 643, which covered 1996 to 2019.

One of the most pernicious things about this whole thing is the way kids and parents are told that it's transition or die and 'Would you rather have a trans child or a dead child?'. It's pushing suicidal ideation and it's abhorrent.

 

[monkers]

That's not how it works, I'm on the side of facts.

You're on the ideology platform.

You need to convince me, the majority that this trans thing is real.

As yet it's all about feelings

I don't need to convince you of anything. Trans people are not an 'ideology'. All bigotry is based on ideology.

Take your conversion therapy heroes all in the clip. Zucker discredited and clinic forcibly closed, McHugh an ardent God-fearing Catholic who has practised conversion therapy on gay people, and has appeared in court in the defence of Catholic priest paedophiles citing some made up stuff about false memory syndrome, and Cantor who believes that paedophile men are born that way.

Grossman is another ultra right wing religious nutjob who things that way hence her description of them as 'giants'. More like farking dionsaurs.

At least another 'giant' Robert Spitzer who was a committed reparative therapy advocate had the grace to eventually recognise the harm he had done and apologised.

These 'giants' have made their fortunes from calling it a 'sex industry'. Not surprised to see you hanging on to their coat tails.

 

[classic33]

View: https://youtu.be/pvV0baH1Edg?si=Qg-N_s99mj_JtQ0a

So as a last resort with mothers then and it has risks. Used by mothers for a short period, not needed all the time they are breastfeeding.... compared to using it in males in 3x the normal dose, needed all the time on top of all the other drugs to produce a small amount of 'milk' rather than as a kick start.

QC is right for once. How ridiculous it is to even be discussing the legitimacy of newborns sucking male nipples to get a miniscule amount of secretion.

Research from Finland suggests young people who undergo gender reassignment do not have a higher suicide risk.


Here you go:

Full research paper:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ices_in_Finland_in_1996-2019_a_register_study

1. Young people who were gender reassigned did not have a higher incidence of suicide than the control group. The idea that gender reassignment is necessary or these kids will kill themselves is 'not supported'.

2. Gender reassignment (in this study this means at least meds btw) has not been shown to reduce suicidal ideation.

3. Young people having gender dysphoria is not a predictor of likelihood of suicide. The risk has been overestimated.


View attachment 5507

This was a large study of 2083 individuals who had been referred to gender clinics, up to age 23, with a similar cohort control group of 16, 643, which covered 1996 to 2019.

One of the most pernicious things about this whole thing is the way kids and parents are told that it's transition or die and 'Would you rather have a trans child or a dead child?'. It's pushing suicidal ideation and it's abhorrent.

Thing is, its use wasn't as a last resort in the US, which led to it being the only country so far to have banned it's use outright. Even its licensed usage, which means other medications have now to be used.

And the guidelines, to which the NHS is working say seven days maximum usage period, if used for other than what it was intended for.

 

[monkers]

So as a last resort with mothers then and it has risks. Used by mothers for a short period, not needed all the time they are breastfeeding.... compared to using it in males in 3x the normal dose, needed all the time on top of all the other drugs to produce a small amount of 'milk' rather than as a kick start.

QC is right for once. How ridiculous it is to even be discussing the legitimacy of newborns sucking male nipples to get a miniscule amount of secretion.

Research from Finland suggests young people who undergo gender reassignment do not have a higher suicide risk.


Here you go:

Full research paper:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...ices_in_Finland_in_1996-2019_a_register_study

1. Young people who were gender reassigned did not have a higher incidence of suicide than the control group. The idea that gender reassignment is necessary or these kids will kill themselves is 'not supported'.

2. Gender reassignment (in this study this means at least meds btw) has not been shown to reduce suicidal ideation.

3. Young people having gender dysphoria is not a predictor of likelihood of suicide. The risk has been overestimated.


View attachment 5507

This was a large study of 2083 individuals who had been referred to gender clinics, up to age 23, with a similar cohort control group of 16, 643, which covered 1996 to 2019.

One of the most pernicious things about this whole thing is the way kids and parents are told that it's transition or die and 'Would you rather have a trans child or a dead child?'. It's pushing suicidal ideation and it's abhorrent.

Attempts to do the work of the useful idiot (and fails).

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't need to convince you of anything. Trans people are not an 'ideology'. All bigotry is based on ideology.

Take your conversion therapy heroes all in the clip. Zucker discredited and clinic forcibly closed, McHugh an ardent God-fearing Catholic who has practised conversion therapy on gay people, and has appeared in court in the defence of Catholic priest paedophiles citing some made up stuff about false memory syndrome, and Cantor who believes that paedophile men are born that way.

Grossman is another ultra right wing religious nutjob who things that way hence her description of them as 'giants'. More like farking dionsaurs.

At least another 'giant' Robert Spitzer who was a committed reparative therapy advocate had the grace to eventually recognise the harm he had done and apologised.

These 'giants' have made their fortunes from calling it a 'sex industry'. Not surprised to see you hanging on to their coat tails.

None of those men have anything to do with gender critical feminism. I could list you quite a few batsh*t contributors from your side of the fence if you like but I prefer to stick to facts.

Nothing to say on the linked Finnish research that shows there's no higher risk of suicide in those young people who have gone down the medical and surgical path? It proves transitioning isn't at all 'life saving' for these youngsters is it?

It's good news. You should be happy about it. I am, but you sound almost disappointed that it contradicts your abhorrent 'transition is lifesaving' view that promotes the idea that distressed and body hating kids will kill themselves if they don't transition. They won't, and that's something we should all be very pleased about.

 

[monkers]

None of those men have anything to do with gender critical feminism.

Where did I say anything about gender critical feminism? I said they were ultra-right wing. Is that what feminism means to you now?

 

[monkers]

None of those men have anything to do with gender critical feminism. I could list you quite a few batsh*t contributors from your side of the fence if you like but I prefer to stick to facts.

Nothing to say on the linked Finnish research that shows there's no higher risk of suicide in those young people who have gone down the medical and surgical path? It proves transitioning isn't at all 'life saving' for these youngsters is it?

It's good news. You should be happy about it. I am, but you sound almost disappointed that it contradicts your abhorrent 'transition is lifesaving' view that promotes the idea that distressed and body hating kids will kill themselves if they don't transition. They won't, and that's something we should all be very pleased about.

I know you don't like my anecdotes but two of the many young trans people who visited my house over the years took their own lives. Their mental health struggles were not intrinsic, they were extrinsic - in other words a reaction to the bigotry of others. And you wonder why this stuff still affects me?

N had her own struggles, all as the result of the unkindness of others - you know from people who are 'not prepared to be kind'.

Back to the false claim made by CXRAndy. Quoting from the Finnish study does not address what he said.

 

[Deleted member 159]

We all know what you think of my data.

Instead, convince me,

Why don't you post some actual data clearly indicating the recent sudden increase of deaths because the therapy has been stopped.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Where did I say anything about gender critical feminism? I said they were ultra-right wing. Is that what feminism means to you now?

You said I was 'hanging on their coat tails'. I've only heard of one of them but as usual it's your guilt by association shtick of pulling stuff out of the ether and hoping everybody is daft enough to take it at face value.

As to Andy's claim, it's perhaps too early to say what the effects of banning puberty blockers are but there don't seem to be signs of a reported sudden increase in suicides amongst young people under 16 who have been denied these drugs. In fact, the two most publicised deaths by suicide of trans identifying young people in recent years were of those who were already on cross sex hormones, via now struck off medic Michael Webberley.

The Finnish research suggests this increase won't materialise. I'm sure we can all agree that's a good thing.

 

[monkers]

We all know what you think of my data.

Instead, convince me,

Why don't you post some actual data clearly indicating the recent sudden increase of deaths because the therapy has been stopped.

I only need to if I make the claim. I haven't. You really don't understand how a discussion works do you?

You made the claim, you need to bring the evidence.

 

[monkers]

You said I was 'hanging on their coat tails'.

So you are a proxy for CXRAndy then.

 

[monkers]

The Finnish research suggests this increase won't materialise. I'm sure we can all agree that's a good thing.

The Finnish report might suggest that this increase won't materialise in Finland - which we can agree is a good thing.

Things could be much different on TERF island though. They'll make sure that we never know though, by not having the data.