Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

Isla Bryson should be excluded from the female prison estate because they are male, not because they are trans. In terms of their crime they are not an outlier - rape is almost exclusively a male crime. 98% of UK sex offenders are male.

There's no magical thing that happens to your statistical risk to women when you start identifying as female. And women in prison, and other spaces, have a right to privacy and dignity as well as safety.

If this was just about being mean to trans people then women would be campaigning for transmen to be housed in men's prisons. They aren't.

Why do official figures give the percentage of convicted offenders at 27%* for women then. That will be convicted, and serving some sort of sentence for the offence.

*AA2019 figure, that has been more or less the same for preceding five years.

 

[monkers]

Feel free to head over to the Who cares thread Monkers to chat about this .

Where I posted something about all this only this morning.

I certainly don't need the existence of incels drawing to my attention.
I'm one of the few people who discusses those problems here.

Most guys seem to be of the opinion that so long as they or 'their mates' don't have these behaviours then that's the best they can manage.

And I'm also very aware that so much of what is 'wrong' with our society comes down to system failures.

I'm in the business of system change myself.

I wasn't aware of the thread or you post -so I'll have a look.

While I appreciate from what you say that you are aware; it doesn't follow that all others here are.

I feel my essential point was well enough made. The trans community are not a movement intending to harm women; the incel movement is however just that. That's a huge reason to be more afraid of one group than the other. If the same amount of energy was directed that way, there would be an increased chance of reducing the rate of offenders against women. The distinction is clear and my post drawing attention to it is well enough made.

 

[classic33]

Should we ban women from teaching boys in schools?
I ask because just prior to covid a teacher was charged with sex with minors. She was giving them extra one to one lessons, in the bedroom of her own house. One of the parents complained about her son being kept, repeatedly, after school, only for the school to deny it.

It fell away as a news story when covid broke, and lockdown started in this country.

 

[icowden]

The call for trans rights is not to allow outliers like Bryson to have access to women's spaces. Collectively trans women do not transition to harm women, very much the opposite.

I think this is very true. However the Scottish GRC Bill removes a requirement for medical diagnosis, removing the requirement to live as a woman for 2 years and dropping the age limit. This effectively means that any man can apply to become a woman without having to dress as a woman, take hormones, have surgery or do anything remotely feminine. Once they have their GRC they are then a woman.

This is great for people who genuinely have a problem and feel that the solution is to transition. However removing all checks and balances is also great for any predatory male who wants to take advantage. It's hard to believe, but there are men out there that will try to take advantage. "Yeah - I reckon if I become a woman I can get a crack at some pussy in a female prison mate - gotta be worth a try, it's either that or big Dave's gonna have a crack at me...". Or "No Mike - you cannot have access to your wife and we will not confirm whether she is staying here... (3 months later) - hi Michelle - you need refuge? - come in...".

I don't think that "ah well - you must have been raped / attacked by an outlier" is going to be much reassurance to many women. Lesbian groups are also concerned about men with GRCs presenting as Lesbian. "Yes, I am a lesbian - ignore the penis and beard - what? YOU TRANSPHOBE!".

We need to balance the needs of this small and vulnerable group of people with the needs of a much larger group of vulnerable people. If everything is on one side, it is not balanced.

 

[multitool]

I don't think it's up to you to tell AS how she feels or what her position is - that's just arrogant

There you go again. That arrogant, hectoring voice trying to tell me what I should or shouldn't say, to other people. The arrogance. Trying to silence people.

Certainly not to be calling her names like 'terf' - that's just plain rude

Do you understand what TERF means? It is literally AS's position.

She's not 'dismissing the views of women' we are not one homogeneous block of people - .

You are almost there...

There are genuine concerns among many women about their rights to safe spaces.

...and round we go again. We've spent pages trying to determine if they are legitimate. AS has spouted non-stop dogma which she can't back up, and the latest round is about the "legitimate threat" from rapists in women's prisons which turns out to be bullsh1t amped up by RW media

I wonder how many transpeople you actually know or come into contact with on a regular basis.?

Every working day.

How about you?

The fact that you've 'never heard' a transwoman saying 'all transwomen are women' suggests to me that you've not really had that much close contact, because that is said very regularly.

Go and find where I said that

 

[icowden]

There you go again. That arrogant, hectoring voice trying to tell me what I should or shouldn't say, to other people. The arrogance. Trying to silence people.

Of course you would *never* do this repeatedly and offensively being an incredibly receptive, self-aware and empathetic person.

 

[multitool]

For clarity, I don't try and silence you. I just don't respond to you. I've been pretty clear why and about the esteem in which I hold your posts.

 

[mudsticks]

I wasn't aware of the thread or you post -so I'll have a look.

While I appreciate from what you say that you are aware; it doesn't follow that all others here are.

I feel my essential point was well enough made. The trans community are not a movement intending to harm women; the incel movement is however just that. That's a huge reason to be more afraid of one group than the other. If the same amount of energy was directed that way, there would be an increased chance of reducing the rate of offenders against women. The distinction is clear and my post drawing attention to it is well enough made.

Yup I'm aware of the distinction between the transrights movement, and that of the incel one.
I very much agree that we should be tackling violence .
And that by tackling VAWAG with much more energy, we tackle the problems encountered by transpeople.

That's been a theme of many of my posts.
But it's not seen as relevant by many - even though these issues clearly intersect.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Do you understand what TERF means? It is literally AS's position.

How can I be Trans Excluding when my feminism includes transmen?

It includes all women, however they identify. It excludes all men, however they identify.

I think you imagine Terf is some sort of terrible slur that you can use to denigrate people. It was often used as one but now it's just a laughable term that has no meaning. Except for people who want to kill women and see us decapitated, obviously.

 

[Ian H]

Yup I'm aware of the distinction between the transrights movement, and that of the incel one.
I very much agree that we should be tackling violence .
And that by tackling VAWAG with much more energy, we tackle the problems encountered by transpeople.

That's been a theme of many of my posts.
But it's not seen as relevant by many - even though these issues clearly intersect.

I'd suggest that those posts are not really controversial so don't generate much discussion - I guess nearly everyone on here would agree with you on that subject. Endless 'likes' and suchlike make it feel like an echo-chamber. And I'm sure the main thrust of your campaigning is not directed at this forum.

 

[AuroraSaab]

T shirts are widely available. They do them in kids sizes.

 

[mudsticks]

Go and find where I said that

Weird. I've yet to hear a trans woman say "I'm not a trans woman, I'm a woman".
🙄
It wasn't far away.

 

[multitool]

Weird. I've yet to hear a trans woman say "I'm not a trans woman, I'm a woman".
🙄
It wasn't far away.

Right. So I didn't say it then.

Now apologise.

 

[mudsticks]

I'd suggest that those posts are not really controversial so don't generate much discussion - I guess nearly everyone on here would agree with you on that subject. Endless 'likes' and suchlike make it feel like an echo-chamber. And I'm sure the main thrust of your campaigning is not directed at this forum.

I'm not after likes, I'm after solutions.

But no one really seems to come up with any useful solutions.
Whereas they're all over solutions and options for all the other problems.

If you suggest men - even men on here should and could actively do more to tackle it.
It's

"Oh but me and my mates aren't like that"

As if that was the end of it.

 

[classic33]

T shirts are widely available. They do them in kids sizes.

View attachment 2997

Neighbour, mentioned earlier, had a hoodie with something similar on it about disabled people. They were videos getting into the works liveried van wearing it, on site. They're no longer welcome at that site. Major contract lost for the company.