Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

The criteria for it being recorded as a hate incident, with a note against someone's name, is the perception of the person reporting it. There is no objective list of criteria as far as I can see. Please give a link to this criteria.

Saying that sex is binary would not be a hate crime because no individual has been offended. Saying 'X is a man' in Scotland might be a hate crime because X might take offence at this description.

This is perception based recording of crime, which relies on officers making decisions as to what is reasonable or not based on how someone feels about what was said.

From the link provided earlier.

Any crime can be prosecuted as a hate crime.​

If the offender has either demonstrated hostility or been motivated by hostility based on any of these five grounds - it's a hate crime.

Someone can be a victim of more than one type of hate crime.

Hate crime targets people for who they are.

It's a very personal crime which can send a clear message: "You're not welcome".

Hate crime also reinforces long-established patterns of discrimination and prejudice against certain communities and groups of people.

 

[Deleted member 159]

However calling a trans in England by their biological sex and birth name is not an offence.

But it is now in Scotland

 

[AndyRM]

"A trans"... FFS. Your dehumanisation of people knows no bounds.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It might be or it might not be a crime. Having such an undefined thing as hate crime based on perception enshrined in law is going to lead to people saying a lot of unnecessary stuff and making a lot of unnecessary reports until the government is forced into clarifying this daft law and issuing some proper detailed and specific guidance. It could all have been avoided and it's going to do very little to help the people it ostensibly claims to protect.

 

[Bromptonaut]

However calling a trans in England by their biological sex and birth name is not an offence.

But it is now in Scotland

Can you say that for sure?

Until somebody is actually prosecuted and convicted it's no more than speculation.

 

[AndyRM]

Keep up. It's been established that law and order is going to collapse in Scotland.

Rumours of Hadrian's Wall being rebuilt are rife as Scotland will be left to work out how to spend our money wisely, do proper police work and stop getting drunk before being readmitted to civilisation.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It won't collapse but as the Scottish government have committed to investigating every reported hate crime it's going to require a lot of police hours. Eventually of course the SG will have to do what they should have done at the drafting stage and provide a list of what specifically counts as a hate crime and what 'reasonable' means in terms of prosecuting.

While we wait for this to happen there are going to be people saying stuff they wouldn't have felt the need to say last week, and people making reports about others just because they personally find what they have said to be unpleasant. How this helps anybody is a mystery.

 

[classic33]

It won't collapse but as the Scottish government have committed to investigating every reported hate crime it's going to require a lot of police hours. Eventually of course the SG will have to do what they should have done at the drafting stage and provide a list of what specifically counts as a hate crime and what 'reasonable' means in terms of prosecuting.

While we wait for this to happen there are going to be people saying stuff they wouldn't have felt the need to say last week, and people making reports about others just because they personally find what they have said to be unpleasant. How this helps anybody is a mystery.

What's to stop anyone reporting any crime now. Thereby taking up police time. Especially if it's "suspicion" of being involved in a a crime, for no other reason than to get even with the person who they're reporting. Any possible link has to be investigated, even if it proves to be false.
Or maybe you'd rather they didn't follow up such reports?

Again see earlier link for what constitutes a hate crime under English Law.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It can't be done anonymously for one thing in England and Wales. Thus if it is found to be malicious, or part of a campaign of harassment, the person could be prosecuted for wasting police time. They would likely just be warned off, but even that isn't possible if your report is anonymous. How can malicious reporting be prevented in Scotland when reports can be anonymous and whether it's a hate crime depends on the person's own perception?

 

[Bromptonaut]

It won't collapse but as the Scottish government have committed to investigating every reported hate crime it's going to require a lot of police hours.

It depends entirely on what 'investigating' means.

If it's sending Detectives around to interview all parties in person then of course it will be resource intensive.

If, OTOH, it's a phone triage to filter out cases that are hopeless or misguided then much less so.

 

[AndyRM]

Yes, yes, of course. Because nobody anonymously reports stuff in any other country which gets followed up by the police*.

How stupid of us Scots!

*It does. It happened to me. I was held at her majesty's pleasure for several hours over a "malicious communication" I had sent to my boyfriend at the time. He didn't report it, some joyless IT nerd did and mistook my joke as a credible threat.

 

[Deleted member 159]

So wasn't anonymous, you found out who made the accusation.

Anyone can directly report whilst not giving details or go to a variety of third party reporting centres, which include a sex shop, mushroom farm and other odd hate crime reporting outlets

 

[AndyRM]

So wasn't anonymous, you found out who made the accusation.

Anyone can directly report whilst not giving details or go to a variety of third party reporting centres, which include a sex shop, mushroom farm and other odd hate crime reporting outlets

No. All I know is that it was someone in the vast IT security department where I used to work. It could have been one of hundreds of people.

I have no idea what the hell your second sentence is meant to mean.

I blame my the lack of comprehension on my Scottish genetics.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It depends entirely on what 'investigating' means.
If it's sending Detectives around to interview all parties in person then of course it will be resource intensive.
If, OTOH, it's a phone triage to filter out cases that are hopeless or misguided then much less so.

If the accused says 'I didn't say that' on this phone call triage what happens then? More interviews, at the police station, under caution, with the expense of a solicitor present, all phones and laptops removed for months till they get to the bottom of it?

Surely you can see that even if only a small number end in prosecution it will be the case that the process is the punishment?

It will be resolved eventually because either officially with a statement, or unofficially on the quiet in practise, what constitutes a hate crime will be whittled down to a minor number of types of things which are likely already covered by current legislation. Meantime there's a ridiculous situation where it's a free for all both in reporting and in saying stupid stuff to see if it's reported.

Andy, you should check to see whether a non crime hate incident has been recorded against your name. The police don't have a duty to tell you if there is unless you ask, but you can ask for it to be removed.

 

[Deleted member 159]

So JK Rowling has not committed any offence according to BBC reports



View: https://twitter.com/BBCNews/status/1775184743270682857?t=ucnpNTFOpHiTWDxDFbpuSw&s=19


Way to go, #scottishhatebill



Now find out whether some officer recorded it as a no hate incident, put your name against it