bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
The fact remains that the IOC study you linked to is of extremely poor quality.
Gender again. Sorry!
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The fact remains that the IOC study you linked to is of extremely poor quality.
AuroraSaab
Squire
Why would I? It's a fairly poor piece of research from a scientist who promotes the 'meaningful competition' definition of fairness that is also favoured by discredited Joane Harper. ie if a male can get their performance down to somewhere near that of a female then that's enough fairness to mean they should be included in the Women's category.
These weren't elite athletes. They were recruited via Facebook etc. and simply had to do a sports activity 3 times a week. We have no way of knowing if the women were keen amateur triathletes and the trans identifying males went to Step classes 3 times a week. We have no idea if they were comparing like with like in terms of where the athletes were in fitness to start with.
It just shows that some rather unfit TW, on some metrics, produce some lab results that are similar to some female athletes. We already know this. We also know that in real life mediocre male athletes who move to the Women's category often make big leaps in their placings, despite taking cross sex hormones.
Further, even lowered lab performance doesn't mean advantage is eliminated as other things that count like big hands (swimming) and height (most sports) remain an advantage in males, unchanged by lowered T levels.
Re MOJ stats. No idea why you think asking me for data that hasn't been made available is a big win. It relies on 'Only those with a GRC are really, really trans' - which we know is the opposite of everything you've ever said on here previously, and the opposite of everything Stonewall and every other trans campaigning group demand.
Either 'Trans women are women' means they all are, GRC or not, or it doesn't. They are either all women or none of them are. Make your mind up.
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AuroraSaab
Squire
If that study argues that trans identifying males can compete in the Women's category because they don't compare with men, why can't women athletes take testosterone? Even on T they don't perform as well as men....
The study says trans identifying men should be treated in a different way to other male athletes. Why? Because they've chosen to take performance lowering drugs? We don't do this for other sportsmen. We don't say a diabetic athlete can go in the Women's category because his meds have caused a drop in performance.
It's nonsense and I'd be surprised if it gets any traction whatsoever.
The study says trans identifying men should be treated in a different way to other male athletes. Why? Because they've chosen to take performance lowering drugs? We don't do this for other sportsmen. We don't say a diabetic athlete can go in the Women's category because his meds have caused a drop in performance.
It's nonsense and I'd be surprised if it gets any traction whatsoever.
monkers
Legendary Member
No it isn't. It points to its own limitations and states clearly; research needed. The bone density findings are interesting though.
bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
Only if you haven't read the criticism of the study.
monkers
Legendary Member
Like I said, yoyo. This will rattle on and on ad nauseum, because everything must be discredited by the GC brigade except the Cass review, which has already been discredited by organisations such as the World Health Organisation.
AuroraSaab
Squire
"Dr Tucker explained that the pool of transgender women displayed V02max (the maximum level of oxygen a body can use during exercise) put them in a “mid-range of untrained or moderately trained adults”, whereas the group of females were in “a significantly higher category of training status”.
“One of those groups would be described as overweight, and the other athletic,” Dr Tucker added. “The transgender women have a body fat percentage of 31.6 per cent, the females 26.6 per cent.
“These demographic characteristics should already make us pause – these groups may not be comparable for reasons that really matter. …
So overweight, unfit males on cross sex hormones do a bit worse in some of the lab tests than very fit women ... quelle surprise.
Btw, anti-jab fanatic and discredited autism scientist Dr Andrew Wakefield has signed the petition against the Cass Report that trans identifying male academic Natasha Kennedy has organised. Sounds about right.
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bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
Do you have a link to this? Might be an interesting read.
monkers
Legendary Member
Interesting.
The accusation are that trans women are cheats. According to Mumsnet they just pretend to be women so they can win at sport because they can't win in men's sport.
In the Lauren Hubbard case they said, she only transitioned so that she could win against women. They said she would beat women. Then she lost, and they say she cheated by losing on purpose.
Now they are saying that trans women are faking their performance in the Brighton University tests.
How does anyone fake a bone density test? Beats me. But I feel sure the conspiracy theorists here can answer that one.
So the accusation here is that the trans women were not athletes so not comparable, and then for the convenience of biased argument, they are athletes trying to get to the top of women's sport.
I guess there wasn't time for GC groupthink central to get the narrative out to all its recruits.
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bobzmyunkle
Senior Member
Who said that?
AuroraSaab
Squire
It doesn't matter why they transition. It matters whether they retain unfair advantage. We aren't on Mumsnet.
Lauren Hubbard was briefly a teenage male champion in NZ. Then having given up the sport came back to compete in the Women's category at age 43 ... 43, when weightlifters peak in their 20's. And got to the Olympics. 4th oldest competitor in history.
Not faking but not comparing like with like. Unfit overweight males with very fit females.
How would bone density affect athletic performance?
Unfit, mediocre males will on occasion beat athletic females. Because they retain male body advantage regardless of hormones levels.
monkers
Legendary Member
Just some GCs on mumsnet etc, but this is how these stories germinate.
fozy tornip
At the controls of my private jet.
Saab and the tool were exchanging fire
On NACA - you know where that's at.
And everybody was gender fluid
Except Mama Cass.
On NACA - you know where that's at.
And everybody was gender fluid
Except Mama Cass.
D
Deleted member 159
Guest
World netball has banned trans from women's international competition.
Given the extra power men can punch the ball, its way over due a ban
https://wlos.com/news/local/volleyb...gender-opponent-spiked-ball-at-her-speaks-out
Given the extra power men can punch the ball, its way over due a ban
https://wlos.com/news/local/volleyb...gender-opponent-spiked-ball-at-her-speaks-out
