Gender again. Sorry!

[icowden]

Wut?
That was years ago. I'm talking about the covidian cult. There wasn't a leader, but there were people who exploited fear to their advantage.

But it grew off the back of Wakefield. Anti-vax had almost disappeared by the end of the 20th century. By the 1980s all 50 states legally required vaccination in order to attend school (with some exemptions). It was Wakefield's move to the US after he had been discredited in the UK that woke up the US lunatics again. Once his study was discredited and withdrawn in 2010 he continued to promote anti-vaccine beliefs and conspiracy theories and linked up with other activists who targeted US Conservatives to promote their nonsense and the US continued to have mass outbreaks of Measles particularly in 2019 and 2020 before Covid appeared and the activists could froth even more.

So it's still more than arguable that Wakefield is the father of the current Anti-vax movement, even if it is the Republicans who now drive it.

 

[monkers]

These weren't elite athletes.

Yes. Exactly.

You don't want trans women to be banned from sport only at the elite level.

People here will have seen your histrionics regarding trans women being allowed to run in Park Run, your weird rambling justifications for bans in pub games and board games like chess due to supposed male advantage.

One further thing, you don't seem to have noticed that the authors of the report are the same people who authored the IOC report that led to the IOC band on trans women at the elite level.

Their conclusion was not that the bans should be lifted, but it is evident that more research is needed.

I thought you were in favour of research and evidence? Only if it leads to further bans it seems.

 

[AuroraSaab]

World Netball ruling:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/netball/68767815.amp

They've left it to individual countries to decide on national regs. Netball England are still formulating their policy.

So many of these news items say 'banned'. Nobody is banned. They are just expected to compete in the appropriate category.

 

[multitool]

But it grew off the back of Wakefield.

Possibly, but I don't remember Wakefield being at all present during the covid era. He certainly wasn't a leader. Cults do not need one given leader. Qanon doesn't have a single leader, for example.

 

[Ian H]

So many of these news items say 'banned'. Nobody is banned. They are just expected to compete in the appropriate category.

Where there are too few people in a category to mount a competition, that is effectively a ban.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Where there are too few people in a category to mount a competition, that is effectively a ban.

Could easily join the men's category, being a male. Not withstanding, if they're good enough to get into the men's team

 

[Deleted member 159]

This is why males should not be on female sports.


View: https://twitter.com/megynkelly/status/1779452583033131227?t=7YuWlkP-Uyti2g9NyGGGcQ&s=19

Unfortunately captured sporting bodies are far too slow to protect female sports.

So this should happen

"Unfortunately, the only way to stop this bizarre thinking is for every girl to walk away at the event, thus canceling it. Stand up as difficult as it is. Then maybe the sanctioning body will realize they do not have the power over a sport for biological females. No sport, No job!"

 

[AuroraSaab]

You don't want trans women to be banned from sport only at the elite level.

Correct. I think women and girls deserve fairness at all levels. Nobody is banned.

People here will have seen your histrionics regarding trans women being allowed to run in Park Run, your weird rambling justifications for bans in pub games and board games like chess due to supposed male advantage.

Not due to male advantage. Some things are separate in order to encourage participation.

Their conclusion was not that the bans should be lifted, but it is evident that more research is needed.

'More research needed on whether male bodies have an advantage'. Alison Felix and Usain Bolt, 100m Olympic champions, would be a good place to start.

 

[monkers]

Correct. I think women and girls deserve fairness at all levels.

It's fair enough to say that. We each have entitlement to a view.

However! The IOC do not exist to represent your view, or my view. They exist in part to ensure fairness in the Olympics. They do not share your view about sport at other levels, nor are they required to do so. It is not fair to criticise them for not wishing to be involved with matters outside their remit.

And again I say to you, when the IOC acted to exclude trans women, you were happy, now some of the authors of the previous report have conducted their own research, and said it's not so simple, we need more research, you consider it a crappy piece of research.

By the way, the bone density comparison matters, because it was one of the metrics that informed their original decision.

You can never see further than your own prejudice. You claim the right to an opinion and work endlessly to demonise any individual or organisation with a different one.

 

[AuroraSaab]

And again I say to you, when the IOC acted to exclude trans women, you were happy, now some of the authors of the previous report have conducted their own research, and said it's not so simple, we need more research, you consider it a crappy piece of research.

The IOC haven't actually done that - they still operate from a position of 'no presumed advantage' and 'meaningful competition' for trans identifying men.

And they didn't base their decision on one study by those authors at all. They looked at the overall research - some of which is of poor quality, not least because just like your recent example they centre on reducing testosterone levels rather than residual male body advantage.

By the way, the bone density comparison matters, because it was one of the metrics that informed their original decision.

Their decision wasn't based on one metric though. How would Usain Bolt having the same bone density as Alison Felix make any difference to his performance in a way that significantly reduced his advantage? Would Bolt have no advantage over Felix if his testosterone level was nearer hers?

 

[monkers]

Their decision wasn't based on one metric though.

I very carefully did not say it was. You even provided the quote to show that I didn't say it was.

In order to make the case for disagreement, you need to be honest about what I have said. Is it too hard to win the argument without doing so?

 

[monkers]

How would Usain Bolt having the same bone density as Alison Felix make any difference to his performance in a way that significantly reduced his advantage? Would Bolt have no advantage over Felix if his testosterone level was nearer hers?

So after the above, you then proceed to prove a point based on a single metric. How can I possibly be expected to provide you with an answer given this silliness?

This is a dishonest attempt to control my output.

I would be reluctant to call Bolt a 'freak', instead I prefer to say he is a 'phenomenon'. The only available answer to your unfair question is that this is unknowable, because I happen to agree with the IOC that more research is needed. All that the latest research is saying is that, to paraphrase, 'the results so far indicate that there are some unexpected results - more research needed'. That is not a conclusion of 'uh oh, we got it wrong, trans women must now be allowed to compete with other women in elite sport'.

 

[Deleted member 159]

The results are already out there.

Teenage school boys are faster than the olympic level women. There are thousands of results that confirm it.

Similar for power events, boys and men are stronger in lifting competitions.

Same for combat events, males are stronger

Same for racket sports. Low ranked males can beat the elite women.

 

[monkers]

Teenage school boys are faster than the olympic level women.

A logical fallacy. Trans women are not teenage boys. The comparison is invalid.

 

[Deleted member 159]

Trans women are not teenage boys. T

They're male, so perfect drop example