Gender again. Sorry!

[classic33]

Woman charged with murder of baby 'Callum' found in Warrington woodland in 1998​

A woman has been charged with murder in connection with the death of a baby in 1998.

Baby "Callum" was discovered in a woodland area in Warrington 26 years ago.

Police arrested a man and a woman from Liverpool in relation to the incident in July 2023 and they were subsequently released on bail.

The woman, who has been named as Joanne Sharkey, 54, was rearrested on Monday and has been charged with murder.

She has been remanded in custody and will appear at Warrington Magistrates' Court on Tuesday.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't. But if testosterone advantages aren't wrong for men, why are they wrong for women? Why should men who still have higher testosterone levels than women be allowed in the Women's category? Why should men profit from the residual result of testosterone input at puberty but women can't profit from it now?

The answer of course is because it's not fair. Whether the advantage comes from natural testosterone at puberty that results in a bigger, stronger, faster body, or in injection form now, it gives an unfair advantage.

 

[classic33]

I don't. But if testosterone advantages aren't wrong for men, why are they wrong for women? Why should men who still have higher testosterone levels than women be allowed in the Women's category? Why should men profit from the residual result of testosterone input at puberty but women can't profit from it now?

The answer of course is because it's not fair. Whether the advantage comes from natural testosterone at puberty that results in a bigger, stronger, faster body, or in injection form now, it gives an unfair advantage.

And there were you shouting down big pharma for the use of drugs with unknown side effects.
Who do you think will be supplying the legal testosterone, should it ever be be removed from the banned list? Then you'll have people wanting to get in on the sale. How safe will what they sell be?

"Testosterone can cause acne in younger men and baldness in older ones. It can temporarily decrease your own body’s ability to produce testosterone and sperm.

But what caught the eyes of the FDA panel were some studies suggesting that testosterone supplements could increase the risk of heart attacks and strokes. The evidence isn’t very strong so far. But the FDA panel and other experts say they want to be very cautious.

They cite the example of estrogen replacement therapy in women. It worked to relieve some unpleasant symptoms of menopause, so doctors prescribed it freely for decades. Only much later did evidence emerge that it could increase the risk of cancer."

https://sportswithoutinjury.com/will-testosterone-help-your-sports-performance/

 

[icowden]

Woman charged with murder of baby 'Callum' found in Warrington woodland in 1998​

A woman has been charged with murder in connection with the death of a baby in 1998.

Baby "Callum" was discovered in a woodland area in Warrington 26 years ago.

Police arrested a man and a woman from Liverpool in relation to the incident in July 2023 and they were subsequently released on bail.

The woman, who has been named as Joanne Sharkey, 54, was rearrested on Monday and has been charged with murder.

She has been remanded in custody and will appear at Warrington Magistrates' Court on Tuesday.

Did you mean to post this here?

 

[Bromptonaut]

People born male with typical amounts of testosterone will out-perform females of the same age with similar training.

But trans women are not in either category, and they are certainly not teenage boys.

I suspect there's not enough validated research to show how natal males who become trans women perform c/p natal females.

My non scientist view is that it's likely that while loss of testosterone has an downward effect on performance having gone through male puberty may still give advantage.

As you say teenage males have no relevance except in Andy Land and he's really only here for laffs.

 

[Deleted member 159]

This maybe slightly more on topic


View: https://twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1780231016298291415?t=yOciMGtX4GRBeUFbHBOzzA&s=19

 

[monkers]

Are there any studies that show the marked reduction in performance that trans-athletes suffer?
(this can only consider strength/speed/etc ... you can't make a 6'+ basketball/volleyball player shorter!)

There are no height restrictions in place as far as I know. Two of my friends who are biological women are well over 6 feet, as is the model Jodi Kidd.

 

[monkers]

I don't. But if testosterone advantages aren't wrong for men, why are they wrong for women? Why should men who still have higher testosterone levels than women be allowed in the Women's category? Why should men profit from the residual result of testosterone input at puberty but women can't profit from it now?

The answer of course is because it's not fair. Whether the advantage comes from natural testosterone at puberty that results in a bigger, stronger, faster body, or in injection form now, it gives an unfair advantage.

So you will say without considering any scientific evidence that contradicts your view.

 

[monkers]

I suspect there's not enough validated research to show how natal males who become trans women perform c/p natal females.

My non scientist view is that it's likely that while loss of testosterone has an downward effect on performance having gone through male puberty may still give advantage.

As you say teenage males have no relevance except in Andy Land and he's really only here for laffs.

I think you may well be right. However the Brighton Report is worth reading all the same. One effect of oestrogen on transitioning bodies is that cardio-vascular function is reduced.

 

[monkers]

They are the correct comparators because the key factor is not current levels of testosterone but the overall 'male body advantage' that an androgenised male body has. ie once a male has been through puberty the effects of testosterone are irreversible. Testosterone has already done its job and lowering the levels only slightly mitigates the advantage it has given.

Your attempts to pretend that an older man with low testosterone is somehow more akin to a woman than a younger male are laughable.

USA Women's Football World Cup and Olympic winner Carli Lloyd with one of the 15 year old Dallas boys that beat her team 5 -2. The (not even fully realised) effects of testosterone are already apparent. If he had zero testosterone he would still have male body advantage.

View attachment 5793

They are the incorrect comparators. If you want to know how the performance of trans women compares with other women, then you compare those, not trans women with teenage boys. This is basic stuff, and you really should know this.

 

[monkers]

"Testosterone can cause acne in younger men and baldness in older ones.

That is incorrect. Testosterone needs to be metabolised by the body. These factors are to do with the ability of the body to metabolise, and not to do with T levels.

I'll not attempt a full and accurate explanation, but google DHT.

 

[AuroraSaab]

They are the incorrect comparators. If you want to know how the performance of trans women compares with other women, then you compare those, not trans women with teenage boys. This is basic stuff, and you really should know this.

We can see how they compare when we look at real life results. They invariably do a lot better than they did in the Men's category. The teenage boy comparator is because you are insisting that age is a better predictor of sports performance than sex. It isn't, unless you are talking about athletic 40 year old women v athletic 65 year old men. And if you were talking about the general population it's likely a 65 year old man would still beat a 40 year old woman in strength tests.

The research you were getting excited about was overweight, unfit transwomen against fit, slim women. No surprise that some athletic women will perform better than some unfit men.

 

[classic33]

We can see how they compare when we look at real life results. They invariably do a lot better than they did in the Men's category. The teenage boy comparator is because you are insisting that age is a better predictor of sports performance than sex. It isn't, unless you are talking about athletic 40 year old women v athletic 65 year old men. And if you were talking about the general population it's likely a 65 year old man would still beat a 40 year old woman in strength tests.

The research you were getting excited about was overweight, unfit transwomen against fit, slim women. No surprise that some athletic women will perform better than some unfit men.

But you use it to prove your point all the time. Why is that?

 

[monkers]

We can see how they compare when we look at real life results. They invariably do a lot better than they did in the Men's category. The teenage boy comparator is because you are insisting that age is a better predictor of sports performance than sex. It isn't, unless you are talking about athletic 40 year old women v athletic 65 year old men. And if you were talking about the general population it's likely a 65 year old man would still beat a 40 year old woman in strength tests.

The research you were getting excited about was overweight, unfit transwomen against fit, slim women. No surprise that some athletic women will perform better than some unfit men.

No I am not. Stop making stuff up. I'm saying the sex of a person at puberty is not the only factor. I gave age as another factor because everybody know that in every sport athletes peak at a certain age and then face retirement.

Try reading my words instead of inventing a set of words that you think you can attribute to me. This is why time and again I have to declare you a dishonest actor.

 

[AuroraSaab]

It is the biggest factor by far though. You are disingenuously pretending other factors come close to making the same difference.

Which is why at 43 Laurel Hubbard still got to the Olympics in the Women's category and tennis player Renee Richards was ranked 20th in the US, even at age 45. Richards changed their opinion on including trans identifying men in the Women's category:

"Having lived for the past 30 years, I know if I'd had surgery at the age of 22, and then at 24 went on the tour, no genetic woman in the world would have been able to come close to me.."

We all know sex is a bigger determinant of sports performance than anything else. Even with age the age gap has to be big. Hence you talking about a 25 year age difference and thinking it proved anything other than how daft your point is.