Gender again. Sorry!

[icowden]

Maybe that was the hyperbolic version

https://www.reuters.com/world/europ...y-revokes-trans-lgbtq-rights-laws-2023-12-22/

Not that hyperbolic:-

It is also no longer a punishable offence to beat a person without causing injury on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identity.

 

[icowden]

هما and انتما in Arabic. Want more? There are loads.

I'll confess I was mostly thinking of the Romance languages where items are gendered. I'm not familiar enough with Arabic to know how it is structured.

You did and quite recently. I'm not going to search your posts

Let's agree that I know what I posted then, and you don't.

 

[AndyRM]

In French you've got "iel" and Spanish using an "e" instead of "a" or "o" ( amongst other slightly weirder symbol based options). There are similar variants in Italian, Portuguese and Catalan.

Not sure how widely used they are generally, but they're out there, though admittedly harder to integrate but it's not that hard with a little bit of thought.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Not that hyperbolic:-

So are you saying it's legal to assault people if they are trans? Or are trans people protected by the law in the same way as everyone else?

 

[qigong chimp]

Why? if I were a white Incel male in the US, good at sport but not good enough to excel for a college scholarship, I just call myself Wendy, start wearing women's clothes and a wig, and compete against girls. Boom. Scholarship to Uni after winning and excelling in my sport.

Why 'incel' in your, er, scenario?
You can't be criticising those who would game an education system, Shirley?

 

[icowden]

So are you saying it's legal to assault people if they are trans? Or are trans people protected by the law in the same way as everyone else?

Apparently so, as along as you don't cause injury and it's on the basis that the person is trans or you don't like their gender identity.
And it's not me saying it, t's Reuters.

"It is also no longer a punishable offence to beat a person without causing injury on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identity."

 

[icowden]

Why 'incel' in your, er, scenario?

Seems more likely that it would be the Incel type rather than someone who gets on well with women.

 

[multitool]

I'll confess I was mostly thinking of the Romance languages where items are gendered. I'm not familiar enough with Arabic to know how it is structured.

It doesnt make any difference. Its not just "items" (do you mean nouns?) that are gendered in Romance kangisges, its pronouns (direct object, possessive, subject pronouns, adjectives, etc etc etc) But that makes no difference because this gendering has fûck all to do with gender of humans.

The point I was making was that other languages have adapted to accommodate people who don't wish to conform to binary norms. For example in French you have "iel", in German er, xier, dey, em, en, hen, iks, and others.

 

[Ian H]

Seems more likely that it would be the Incel type rather than someone who gets on well with women.

Why 'incel' in your, er, scenario?
You can't be criticising those who would game an education system, Shirley?

If it gets them out of their bedrooms or basements, Shirley surely that can only be a good thing.

 

[multitool]

Seems more likely that it would be the Incel type rather than someone who gets on well with women.

Yeah...err...I think you might have missed QC's sly dig

 

[multitool]

Why? if I were a white Incel male in the US, good at sport but not good enough to excel for a college scholarship, I just call myself Wendy, start wearing women's clothes and a wig, and compete against girls. Boom. Scholarship to Uni after winning and excelling in my sport.

We are back to your notion (which you deny that you've ever said) of het cis men pretending to be women in order to confer some sort of advantage (easier perving in women's toilets, winning an egg and spoon race on the vicarage lawn at the Scout Jamboree or whatever)

Might I suggest you try it for yourself (up to you whether you choose perving or sporting endevour) and report back on whether it just opened up every possible door for you (as you suggest it would) with no trace of downside of living life as a trans woman in the UK.

 

[icowden]

The point I was making was that other languages have adapted to accommodate people who don't wish to conform to binary norms. For example in French you have "iel", in German er, xier, dey, em, en, hen, iks, and others.

Fair enough. After looking up "iel" I found the following feedback as to whether it's actually used.

It’s easily accepted in feminist / lgbt / radical left crowds.
Otherwise people will mostly don’t understand what you mean and assume you are mispronouncing something else.

I think the pronoun "iel" is mostly a niche Internet phenomenon. I've never heard it pronounced in my life. To put things into perspective, it is not at all as popular as the recent movement in favor of using "they" in English.

There are some experimental terms that have gotten some traction at highly progressive places (like some universities) and among the LGBQT+ community. The most common one is iel (pronounced as ee-ell or yell).

Le Robert's online dictionary includes it as a word, calling it rare. They also say that they've seen a growth in its use recently : Pourquoi Le Robert a-t-il intégré le mot « iel » dans son dictionnaire en ligne ?

However, most French people don't know that term, and wouldn't really know what you're talking about if you used it. So if you hear it or read it, you can recognise it. But using it in the street will probably just confuse people

So, whilst it might exist, it's not really in use.

 

[icowden]

Might I suggest you try it for yourself (up to you whether you choose perving or sporting endevour) and report back on whether it just opened up every possible door for you (as you suggest it would) with no trace of downside of living life as a trans woman in the UK.

Why on earth would I have to live as a trans woman? You don't have to take meds, or live day to day. Just declare it for the purposes of the race. I'm pretty sure that's what people have been extolling. You can be Bob Monday to Friday and Wendy on Saturdays or whatever.

Also, I'm not an athlete or a pervert.

 

[icowden]

We are back to your notion (which you deny that you've ever said) of het cis men pretending to be women in order to confer some sort of advantage (easier perving in women's toilets, winning an egg and spoon race on the vicarage lawn at the Scout Jamboree or whatever)

I've never denied suggesting that. For someone so obsessed with accuracy and research, yours is really falling rather short.

What I denied was this:-

By the way, Spain has now had self-ID for 14 months. Have they had the deluge of men pretending to be women purely in order to gain access to women's loos (that they have always had, there and here by the way) purely in order to perv?

which I have never suggested. If you want access to a women's loo, just walk in. I've done it many times. Admittedly it was a few years ago with a small female child requiring a nappy change. I have been challenged, at which point a simple "this is where the changing table is" was satisfactory.

I have also previously stated (obviously you weren't paying attention) that the whole loo thing is a dead cat. As has been pointed out, there isn't a loo Police and no-one is checking.

Women's refuges and other secure spaces are a different matter, as are women's sports.

 

[icowden]

Yeah...err...I think you might have missed QC's sly dig

Didn't occur to me given that I'm middle aged and married with two kids.