Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

I wouldn't say it's evil, but I would say that it's drawing a weird line in the sand. By it being completely privately funded it's run according to the beliefs of those funding it which I don't think is a great idea because it pushes an agenda, in this case the exclusion of trans women.

It's a rape crisis centre for women. It excludes men. If a rape crisis centre for women includes men that's also pushing an agender. Women who have been raped and assaulted are entitled to heal away from men. It's absolutely abhorrent that anyone should think they aren't. The same applies to men.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Well stated. I'll just add a word if I may ... blanket ... the blanket exclusion of trans women - which of course is unlawful.

They are excluded on the basis of being men, not for being trans. You know this but persist in pretending that the Equality Act doesn't apply to your special sub set of men.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Eh?

You said it's unlawful. We were talking about the Rowling funded rape crisis centre. I'm not aware of any legal proceedings against the unlawfulness.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So what would you do with those women who are in prison for sexual offences against women and girls? Put them in male prisons?

Put them in women's prisons. Because they are women.

103 represented as 3, for women. 92 for 'men identifying as women' represented as 1916. Funny that when the actual headcount is that more women are in jail for sexual offences than 'men identifying as women'.

As you would expect as it's per population. Women are 30 million in England and Wales. Transwomen are 48,000 (by census figures).

So 103 female sex offenders out of a population of 30 million.
92 transwomen sex offenders out of a population of 48,000.

That's quite some over representation.
There are nearly as many transwomen sex offenders as actual women sex offenders.

Looks like male pattern offending to me.

Where is the definition of 'men identifying as women'? Who are included in this cohort.
This is outrageous fakery, but it's the best you've got?

The definition is that they declared their gender as female on arrival in prison. It doesn't include those with GRC's. They are counted in the female stats.

If being a woman is innate (as you say) and people are who they say they are (as you say), then transwomen offend at the same if not higher rate than other men. And much higher rates than women.

 

[monkers]

That's not true. There's no requirement under the Equality Act to have surgery or hrt to have the protected characteristic of Gender Reassignment.

View attachment 6012


Isla Bryson would likely have remained in Corton Vale women's prison if it hadn't been publicised and the public kicked off about it. Why take them to a women's prison rather than a man's for assessment if that wasn't the intention?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64729029.amp


There are 7 transwomen held in women's jails in Scotland in 2023. Down from 11 in 2022.
View attachment 6013
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...o-be-mostly-kept-out-of-female-scottish-jails


You make assertions that are easily proved false in the hope that casual readers will take your word for it. See above.

We don't know because they are counted as women for the purpose of the stats. But now we're back to your latest flip flop - they only count in prison if they have a GRC.



Lol. No withdrawal will be forthcoming because your assertion is a ridiculous U turn. How can a man being a woman be something innate for 90% of the thread but now it's not real unless they have a GRC?

They are either all women simply because they say they are, or none of them are. Make your mind up.

And here's you misrepresenting other people's words, reality, and truth all over again.

Men who crossdress are not proposing gender reassignment. The law does not include them. The law includes those who intend to transition under the provisions of the GRA. That is exactly what the gender reassignment provision within the EqA is for, it's a placeholder for the GRA. The number of men who cross dress either in private, only at exclusive venues, or for a night out at the pub are not transitioners. They are expressing femininity, but no desire to transition. And that is why your presented evidence of Jordan Peterson's derived evidence of 'men identifying as women' can not be trusted. If a man identifies as a cross dresser, he is not identifying as a woman, he is identifying as a man.

However there are those who wish to include people of many persuasions and personalities including entertainers into one cohort called 'men who identify as women' without any definition and treat them all as the samem ie. all wrong'uns.

So come on Aurora stump up the evidence. How many trans women convicted of sexual offences against women and girls are housed with women (not just separately on estates holding both sexes) in the UK? How many? Are you hoping the question will go away if you keep batting away with irrelevances?

 

[monkers]

You said it's unlawful. We were talking about the Rowling funded rape crisis centre. I'm not aware of any legal proceedings against the unlawfulness.

I did say it's ''unlawful''. I didn't say it's ''illegal''. Prosecutions are brough for illegal acts, ie criminal acts. Cases can be taken under civil law for unlawful acts, but only when somebody feels inclined to do so and be able to fund it. This is how wealthy people like Rowling get away with. They shout out on social media trying to embarrass the police, 'go on arrest me then' so that people such as yourself believe what they are doing is perfectly lawful. It isn't lawful, but it's not a criminal offence, so the police have no powers.

 

[monkers]

They are excluded on the basis of being men, not for being trans. You know this but persist in pretending that the Equality Act doesn't apply to your special sub set of men.

Oh ffs, trans women with a GRC are female under the law (the GRA confers it). The EqA therefore treats trans women as females. Can you not see why I think you are really farking thick?

Your legal sex is whatever it says on your birth certificate - you have learned that by now? Yes?

 

[AndyRM]

It's a rape crisis centre for women. It excludes men. If a rape crisis centre for women includes men that's also pushing an agender. Women who have been raped and assaulted are entitled to heal away from men. It's absolutely abhorrent that anyone should think they aren't. The same applies to men.

Good job I don't think that then.

 

[AuroraSaab]

And here's you misrepresenting other people's words, reality, and truth all over again.

Men who crossdress are not proposing gender reassignment. The law does not include them. The law includes those who intend to transition under the provisions of the GRA.

Yes it does if they say they are women. That's literally all that's required for protection under the Equality Act. This is quite the turn around from you on self ID I must say. I suppose it's the only way of getting round the number of trans identifying men who keep getting arrested - just pretend they aren't trans, even if they say they are.

So come on Aurora stump up the evidence. How many trans women convicted of sexual offences against women and girls are housed with women (not just separately on estates holding both sexes) in the UK? How many? Are you hoping the question will go away if you keep batting away with irrelevances?

At the moment? Around 5 transwomen are in women's jails in England and Wales. Ten were moved out of women's jails and back to men's prisons after the government tightened the rules last year. We don't know how many were sex offenders but thanks to the outcry over Isla Bryson it's likely there are no longer any in E and W because they will have been amongst the ones moved back to the male estate.

Hopefully once the ones still there complete their sentence no more men will be sent to women's prisons at all. They can be adequately cared for in special offender wings in male prisons like other vulnerable male inmates.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/03/most-trans-prisoners-no-longer-in-female-jails/

Whether you have a GRC or not wasn't part of the assessment in whether men were sent to women's jails in Scotland btw.

 

[monkers]

Yes it does if they say they are women. That's literally all that's required for protection under the Equality Act. This is quite the turn around from you on self ID I must say. I suppose it's the only way of getting round the number of trans identifying men who keep getting arrested - just pretend they aren't trans, even if they say they are.

They have to propose transition, not just say 'I feel like a woman'. A 'crossdresser' might be heard to sing along to 'Man I feel like a woman' but that is not a proposal to transition, it requires something rather more formal.

 

[monkers]

At the moment? Around 5 transwomen are in women's jails in England and Wales.

Finally some truth. Yes, that sounds like the number I remember being given by the ministry. Given the strict requirement for risk assessment, it would surprise me to hear that they are interned for offences against women - other offences do exist!

And now that you've finally stated the truth, a truth that you have known all along, perhaps you will retract the GC line about 192 trans women sex offenders being placed in women's prisons?

What we know is there are likely no trans women, but that something like 103 cis women are in women's prisons for sexual offences.

Addendum: that made it sound like I have faith in the number 103, whereas actually I don't. From my own workings I think the number is something closer to 60.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Finally some truth. Yes, that sounds like the number I remember being given by the ministry. Given the strict requirement for risk assessment, it would surprise me to hear that they are interned for offences against women - other offences do exist!

The sex offenders, violent offenders, and the ones who have kept their male genitalia have been moved to male prisons. The ones left are likely those men with a GRC, those men serving short sentences, and those men nearing the end of their sentences. Hopefully the number will continue to reduce as they complete their terms and no more will be added.

And now that you've finally stated the truth, a truth that you have known all along, perhaps you will retract the GC line about 192 trans women sex offenders being placed in women's prisons?

Where are you getting 192 from? I don't believe anybody has claimed there are 192 male sex offenders in women's prisons in England and Wales.

What we know is there are likely no trans women, but that something like 103 cis women are in women's prisons for sexual offences.

There are around 5 currently, not including men with GRC's. See the article. Why so few now? They've mostly been removed to male prisons.

 

[monkers]

The sex offenders, violent offenders, and the ones who have kept their male genitalia have been moved to male prisons. The ones left are likely those men with a GRC, those men serving short sentences, and those men nearing the end of their sentences. Hopefully the number will continue to reduce as they complete their terms and no more will be added.

Then why are you here every outraged and declaring that people don't care about women and girls, not caring about female prisoners sharing prison with male sex offenders?

You just admitted that none of it was true.

Finally I'm relieved that we can draw a line under it. We can also berate Jordan Peterson for his deliberate mischaracterisation of UK prisoner placement that you presented.

 

[AuroraSaab]

They have to propose transition, not just say 'I feel like a woman'. A 'crossdresser' might be heard to sing along to 'Man I feel like a woman' but that is not a proposal to transition, it requires something rather more formal.

What is 'proposing transition' but saying 'I'm a woman' or 'I'm living as a woman'? It's literally all that's required for protection under the Equality Act. No doctor's note, no hrt, no certificate required.

Eddie Izzard doesn't have a GRC, neither does India Willoughby, nor does Emily Bridges as far as I know. These aren't transwomen?

What formality is required other than saying you're a woman?

What a convoluted linguistic story you spin. All to be able to say that the men who say they are women suddenly aren't as soon as they're arrested for sex offences.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Then why are you here every outraged and declaring that people don't care about women and girls, not caring about female prisoners sharing prison with male sex offenders? You just admitted that none of it was true.

Women campaigned to get men out of women's jails. Now most of them are out so you say 'What are you moaning about, there aren't many in women's jails?'. Because women campaigned to have them removed.

Finally I'm relieved that we can draw a line under it. We can also berate Jordan Peterson for his deliberate mischaracterisation of UK prisoner placement that you presented.

No. Let's see you point out where I've said there are 192 transwomen sex offenders in women's jails in England and Wales.

You chuck out these claims, calling me a liar about something I never said, and hope people will believe them. Let's have the screenshot.

I haven't mentioned Jordan Peterson in a single post so again you seem to be mistaken.