Gender again. Sorry!

[bobzmyunkle]

We'll have to differ on that.

I see what you did @Bromptonaut. Bring up Rowling, throw in transphobe, and it follows that all opinion on Mumsnet can be dismissed.
Sounds like you might have been on the Toolzie koolaid.

 

[monkers]

Monkers has posted that joke from a satirical news site as being a genuine headline before.

Bollocks. You are lying as usual. I have never said it is any more than a spoof, but your determination to check people's gametes before believing they are women is the very point of 'the joke'. It isn't a joke' it's a reality check. If there is a 'joke' it is that it was believable enough that some people actually did believe it.

Women are targeting women by false perception. I also pointed to the case of athlete who was placed in the Great West run a couple of weeks ago. The Mumsnet cult falsely identified her as trans by perception and disgraced themselves with a huge pile on of abuse, some of them remaining unapologetic.

I've always said this was happening, and would get worse.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

You can believe the likes of Rowling, Aurora, Badenoch et al if you must, but you should not in all reason.

Aah! @monkers is at it now. There all the same aren't they.

 

[icowden]

Recently I have thoroughly debunked the whole trans women in women's prison set of false claims. Aurora has been lying through her teeth, while people were soaking up the hate. You haven't been immune yourself Ian (sadly) from engaging in this cultist behaviour.

That's unfair. She has been disagreeing with you and providing alternative opinion.

The MO has been for the cultist to make innocent men feel guilt and shame for the minority of men who commit shameful crime against women. If you are an innocent man, it is not your fault as a man that this is happening. The burden is not your's. Nor is it the burden of innocent trans women for men who transgress. What is being advocated is segregation, not unlike other historic forms of segregation that had to be fought against. This is apartheid.

Again, I'm not sure that it is/

The cult are irrational. They effectively want you to believe that people are undergoing transition in order to get closer to women to sexually assault them.

I don't recall anyone suggesting this. What was suggested is that as per Isla Bryson, any man can don a dress, call themselves a different name and use all of the weaponised language of the trans movement to justify what they are doing. Bryson is a rapist. In July 2019 he was charged with rape. Shortly after, he decided to become a woman by calling himself Isla and putting on a dress. He did not start any medical treatment until 4 years later, and even then it was only hormone treatment. Prior to that, you know, when he was just a man in a dress with no hormone treatment, he enrolled on a beauty course at Ayrshire college where he got to practice beauty treatments on girls as young as 16 including tanning treatments. So by putting on a dress, a rapist was able to hang out with young girls, all of whom were almost nude. You then have Katie Dolatowski who I believe also has had no medical intervention.

Yes, these are edge cases, but they illustrate perfectly that if you put on a dress and give yourself a woman's name you can use the full protection of "trans rights" to do whatever you want / gain access to places where you shouldn't be. As a bloke, Katie Dolotowski would have been chucked out of the ladies toilets. As a transwomen, she is "entitled" to be there to practice her predatory paedophilia.

Transition almost invariably means hormone use if not surgery - effectively castration. Anyone who believes the gender critical cult story that men castrate themselves in order to become rapists needs some kind of therapy.

Again, no-one believes this.

More Conservative members of parliament have allegations of sexual assault against them than the UK population of trans women, yet I don't hear Kemi Badenoch screeching for the end of the Tory party, or for disbanding the Met police despite the record of some of their officers.

No, but we really should be ;-)

The failings are political; those guilty of crime are not being caught or dealt with. We are all unsafe because the police and the judiciary have been emasculated by the Tories. The police have been instructed to make fewer arrests, the prisons are having to turn out prisoners before their release date. The probation services can not cope. Yet the focus for women's safety is the apartheid of those trans women who are innocent of crime.

All valid points. No-one is concerned about people who are genuinely transgender.

 

[icowden]

Bollocks. You are lying as usual. I have never said it is any more than a spoof, but your determination to check people's gametes before believing they are women is the very point of 'the joke'. It isn't a joke' it's a reality check. If there is a 'joke' it is that it was believable enough that some people actually did believe it.

She isn't. You have, and you didn't make clear that you knew that it was a joke. It really is tiring when you categorise someone disagreeing with you as lying. People are allowed to disagree.

 

[Bromptonaut]

There must be loads of awful transphobic things that J K Rowling has said by now. Can you start us off with say, five?

As I suspect you well know it's the trans women are men and a threat to other women thing that's transphobic.

 

[monkers]

It's Monkers of course who originated the 'I don't know what your chromosomes/gametes are.....' line of argument on here, even saying it about themselves. Apparently we can't possibly know the sex of someone we meet in real life, but we mustn't ever say we don't know the sex of anonymous strangers on forums.

I have never questioned that you are female. I have never said that nobody knows what their gametes are - your imagination is relentless.

I have said that most of us don't know what our chromosomes are, which given that most of us have never had them tested is a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

You lie about everything repeatedly. You even lie about what other people say to you. The reality is that you are arguing without a reasonable of rational argument, just attempting moral panic and alarmism. Your own fear is real, but it's irrational - deal with it.

 

[icowden]

As I suspect you well know it's the trans women are men and a threat to other women thing that's transphobic.

But awkwardly also true unless a given set of circumstances are reached - i.e. medical transition. I'd also use the phrase "potential threat" - it's more accurate.

 

[Bromptonaut]

I see what you did @Bromptonaut. Bring up Rowling, throw in transphobe, and it follows that all opinion on Mumsnet can be dismissed.
Sounds like you might have been on the Toolzie koolaid.

Although we express ourselves differently I don't thin 'toolzie' and I think are that far apart. The trans women are a threat to cis women thing is, to me, transphobic.

All I'm saying about Mumsnet is that it's been captured by women who think like AS.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Recently I have thoroughly debunked the whole trans women in women's prison set of false claims.

No you haven't. You used the moving of almost all transwomen to the male estate to claim there was never a problem in the first place, then made a ridiculous claim about what I said because you misread the numbers - failing to admit it or correct it when it was pointed out. The idea you have of yourself in your head as some sort of Olympic level debater destroying all arguments put before you is far short of reality. You depend on abuse and verbose, pompous, histrionics exactly because your arguments lack merit.

Aurora has been lying through her teeth, while people were soaking up the hate. You haven't been immune yourself Ian (sadly) from engaging in this cultist behaviour.

Oh Ian, what a disappointment you are.

What is being advocated is segregation, not unlike other historic forms of segregation that had to be fought against. This is apartheid.

Women having their own spaces is not apartheid. It is appropriating the historical oppression of black people to suggest women and girls having spaces or sports to themselves is the same as apartheid in South Africa or the segregation of blacks and whites in the USA.

Nobody in their right mind thinks girls and boys changing separately for PE is like having 2 water fountains in a US park in the 1950's. You have to fall back on such hyperbolic nonsense because we all know why women and girls need separate spaces in certain situations.

More Conservative members of parliament have allegations of sexual assault against them than the UK population of trans women,

Are any of them women? If they're all men that rather proves the point of who is the risk doesn't it?

 

[monkers]

Aah! @monkers is at it now. There all the same aren't they.

Well, all of those will have you believe that women's prisons are chock full of trans prisoners with a long history of raping women and are doing so in prison right now. Yes, I've just embellished with a exaggeration; the same kind of exaggeration.

Recently I debunked the whole prison claim. The number of trans women who have convictions for harming women in women's prisons is not the thousands that was claimed, it is zero. If you are interested in the truth, then please do read those posts.

Otherwise you can fall for this argument that the 'men' most likely to rape women are the ones who are surgically or chemically castrated.

Whereas the group of men who I believe are more likely to be the ones with more potential to harm women are the incels. If there actually is a social contagion of people damaging to women it is them.

 

[Bromptonaut]

But awkwardly also true unless a given set of circumstances are reached - i.e. medical transition. I'd also use the phrase "potential threat" - it's more accurate.

What is medical transition? In particular where is the line that is crossed when it's complete?

 

[AndyRM]

I see what you did @Bromptonaut. Bring up Rowling, throw in transphobe, and it follows that all opinion on Mumsnet can be dismissed.
Sounds like you might have been on the Toolzie koolaid.

Have an extended wander around Mumsnet. It's properly off the chain lunacy in places. I got torn apart because I mentioned that I call my daughter "Dude" sometimes.

ETA: Also got some pretty hateful messages for having the temerity to post as a non-binary person. The clue is in the strap line "By parents, for parents".

That said it's a pretty useful site for actual parenting advice, but using it as a metric for anything rational is pointless.

 

[icowden]

What is medical transition? In particular where is the line that is crossed when it's complete?

Medical transition is the process of taking hormone therapy followed by surgical alteration. It is complete when surgical alteration has been completed. Until someone starts taking hormones they are no different to anyone else of their biological sex.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Have an extended wander around Mumsnet. It's properly off the chain lunacy in places. I got torn apart because I mentioned that I call my daughter "Dude" sometimes.

Not what I was on about though. Have a wander around a forum closer to home - them crazies get everywhere.