monkers
Legendary Member
How to believe
Cass or monkers?
Coroners - sixteen of them.
Gender again. Sorry!
- Thread starter theclaud
- Start date
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Coroners - sixteen of them.
D
Deleted member 159
Guest
Has its been highlighted by Cass, mental health care is paramount. It's a mental health condition which is rampant in children currently
monkers
Legendary Member
The Tavistock was the provider of healthcare. The were unable to cope. Services were impaired. You wanted it closed. It has been closed with nothing in its place. Parents warned of the consequences. Many of you cheered when the service was closed. How you helped with your constant piss-taking 'arm dicks' and much else.
You were not just complicit, but actively campaigning against services for trans people.
16 needless deaths of young people, and I fear more to come. But yeh, you had a good laugh didn't you.
AuroraSaab
Squire
There will be health provision for children referred to gender clinics, just not the doling out of puberty blockers that you demand. The new clinics will be holistic, multi disciplinary and provide psychological support.
As I read it Alice Litmann, who took their own life in May 2023, had been in contact with Michael Webberley of Gender GP from September 2019.
According to this report AL was on hormones.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bindmans.com/knowledge-hub/news/alice-litman-bold-and-brave-alice-let-down-by-extreme-wait-for-gender-affirming-healthcare/?amp=1
The failings are in lack of mental health support for all distressed children and young adults, not just those in waiting lists at gender clinics. Specifically in this case of someone who fell through the gap between child and adult services.
It has nothing to do with not getting puberty blockers from the NHS.
Worth noting that Michael Webberley of Gender GP was struck off as a doctor for failing to adequately assess patients before giving them hormones, including to a young person who committed suicide. He was the one who was contacted by the Litman's for support 4 years before Alice Litman's death.
As I read it Alice Litmann, who took their own life in May 2023, had been in contact with Michael Webberley of Gender GP from September 2019.
According to this report AL was on hormones.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bindmans.com/knowledge-hub/news/alice-litman-bold-and-brave-alice-let-down-by-extreme-wait-for-gender-affirming-healthcare/?amp=1
The failings are in lack of mental health support for all distressed children and young adults, not just those in waiting lists at gender clinics. Specifically in this case of someone who fell through the gap between child and adult services.
It has nothing to do with not getting puberty blockers from the NHS.
Worth noting that Michael Webberley of Gender GP was struck off as a doctor for failing to adequately assess patients before giving them hormones, including to a young person who committed suicide. He was the one who was contacted by the Litman's for support 4 years before Alice Litman's death.
AuroraSaab
Squire
How to believe
Cass or monkers?
Monkers, of course. Legal expert, medical expert, purveyor of the finest anecdotes of lived experience that must be swallowed whole without question. Certainly not a multi disciplinary team of scientists headed by the former head of the Royal College of Paediatricians who was chosen specifically because she had no prior opinion on the issue. Certainly not the team of independent experts at York Uni who graded the research to industry standards and found the evidence lacking.
AndyRM
Elder Goth
You do love a bit of hyperbolic language, don't you?
Hardly surprising given your diet of histrionic social media.
monkers
Legendary Member
Rated: Shooting the messenger.
Legal expert. No, but I can spot a liar. The person sitting at the same dining table as me is certainly much more proficient than you or I in law as has been demonstrated.
Medical expert? No. I know little about endocrinology. But I don't have to, because I can spot a bigot and a liar.
I am not the author of those coroners' reports. But I can read them. I recommend you read them thoroughly and understand the harm you've been promoting.
In the past week or so, your claims about trans women in womens' prisons has been shown to be false, your claims that the Swedish study shows the trans women in the UK have the same offending rates as men - debunked.
So now I'm turning my attention to you saying that the suicide among trans youth is a myth and a form of emotional pleading, emotional blackmail etc. Turns out you were lying again, and worse still, you just don't care.
You don't care what you say, truth or lie, or at what cost. You have no shame.
AuroraSaab
Squire
You claimed to know better than the EHRC when they clarified that those with a GRC could be excluded from single sex spaces when appropriate.
You claimed to know better than Hilary Cass and her expert team, and the clinicians and scientists in half of Europe's governments who are rolling back on puberty blockers.
Put the links up. You are specifically linking suicide with not getting puberty blockers so let's see the evidence. A coroner saying 'There isn't enough mental health care and waiting lists are too long' is very different from that specific claim - we all know that mh care is poor and it applies to most children and adults seeking help in the UK, not just kids on gender clinic lists.
Show us where coroners specifically say it was not getting puberty blockers that caused 16 suicides.
And you are an absolute ghoul who will promote suicidal ideation in children and weaponise suicide to provide adult men with a cloak of respectability.
You are doing exactly what the government's suicide advisor has told you not to.
monkers
Legendary Member
N here.
Your approach here is problematic for a number of reasons. The Good Law Project intend to assist Transactual to submit a case.
You'll appreciate that submission documents will not have been prepared and submitted to date. It will not be appropriate for me to anticipate detail of the submission.
There will necessarily a number of strands. I doubt that the court will be prepared to hear a case concerning the efficacy of the use of puberty blockers in trans youth, since the High Court have already ruled in favour of the NHS on the point.
I will anticipate that the court will hear a submission that the strategy employed by the UK government in order to pass an SI (statutory Instrument) is unlawful. This no doubt will include a claim that the requirements of the twenty one day rule have not been met.
As far as Dr Cass is considered, Cass noted that there is insufficient either way, ie insufficient evidence to proof of safety, insufficient evidence to proof of harm. In other words, according to Cass there is insufficient basis to either ban them or endorse their use. Cass has effectively reclused herself from that particular argument. So I have to take you to task on your claim that Monkers must be wrong and Cass must be right. The claim would be inadmissible.
If the court does choose to hear a submission, it most likely will on the basis of evidence available at this time that was not available at the prior appeal hearing (Bell). To this end, we do have the opinions of Dr Cass,. We also have a significant number of coroners expressing concern.
Additionally we have the NHS policy which permits clinicians to exercise their judgement in the prescription of puberty blockers to cis gender youth, but not to trans gender youth. This submission would ask for a judgement on the basis of discrimination on the part of the NHS towards trans youth.
Incidentally your piece with the included quote would fail in court within seconds. The title of the linked piece alone would bring about surprise to the point of ridicule, with the judge attempting to stifle sniggers on their sleeve.
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D
Deleted member 159
Guest
It was prioritising drug and surgery over psychiatric services
AuroraSaab
Squire
So no evidence then? Just the word of a tax lawyer with a vested interest.
Cass on puberty blockers: long term harms unknown, benefits not evidenced.
Are you seriously asking the forum to believe that you personally have seen 16 coroners reports that aren't in the public domain via the Good Law Project? That's what you have claimed.That seems a bit reckless of the GLP to be giving out such non public evidence. If they are in the public domain, give us the evidence so we can assess your claim that it was not getting puberty blockers that caused 16 suicides for ourselves.
That is the claim you have made.
Let's not have any bs that it's about whether the government's action was technically wrong in law or didn't follow correct procedure, or about long mh waiting lists. That isn't the issue.
Let's see the evidence that supports the hormones or die narrative that you are pushing on here.
Cass on puberty blockers: long term harms unknown, benefits not evidenced.
Are you seriously asking the forum to believe that you personally have seen 16 coroners reports that aren't in the public domain via the Good Law Project? That's what you have claimed.That seems a bit reckless of the GLP to be giving out such non public evidence. If they are in the public domain, give us the evidence so we can assess your claim that it was not getting puberty blockers that caused 16 suicides for ourselves.
That is the claim you have made.
Let's not have any bs that it's about whether the government's action was technically wrong in law or didn't follow correct procedure, or about long mh waiting lists. That isn't the issue.
Let's see the evidence that supports the hormones or die narrative that you are pushing on here.
monkers
Legendary Member
It needs to be understood that gender incongruence is not a treatable psychiatric condition. This is not to say that the individual can not have comorbid conditions that need attention.
In cases where there are no comorbid conditions, why would psychiatric services be needed?
AuroraSaab
Squire
Kids prescribed to UK gender clinics have massive co issues; high autism rates, same sex attracted, more likely to be in care or have a sex offender parent. You can't seriously be advocating for puberty blockers and hormones as essential but mental health support as irrelevant and unnecessary?
Alice Litman had hormones for 3 years but not the psychological support from MH services.
Alice Litman had hormones for 3 years but not the psychological support from MH services.
classic33
Me
You're saying that clinics were prescribed a certain number of kids?
Nice to see that the dignity that you often tout as being behind on here is reflected in your posts, where to you there's only one side involved. Your reduction of human life to a meaningless wording is a better indicator of your true intentions/thoughts on the subject.
monkers
Legendary Member
I didn't say that I sourced the coroners' reports from the Good Law Project. I didn't claim that I have read all 16. I know about 16 cases via a parents' support group of which I remain a member. I posted a sample from a folder therein.
Neither have I said that in every case the lack of puberty blockers is the definite cause.
What I have done is highlighted the turning point in the number of suicides in trans youth. That turning point coincides with time that restrictions were placed by the NHS on the use of puberty blockers. One known cases in 7 years became16 known cases in the next three years.
There remained certain routes for some young people to obtain puberty blockers. Victoria Atkins has now in the opinions of lawyers acted unlawfully in blocking access to puberty blockers, and this after being sent notices of concern from coroners.
You have been asserting (without any medical knowledge) that puberty blockers should be stopped, declaring them unsafe. Even Cass did not say this.
I on the other hand have seen no signs of them causing great harm. However through the support group I have heard from mothers who say that for their children they became a lifeline. The opinion in the parents' support group has been unanimous, that without puberty blockers there would be cases of youth suicide.
How disgusting it is of you, to claim that I am simply weaponising the argument to show coroners reports. This has become some typical of the dirty tricks tactics that you always will resort to.
Had the boot been on the other foot, that is to say, sixteen young people had died from taking puberty blockers, you'd have been all over this like a rash.
It just shows, what you desire is trans erasure.
