Gender again. Sorry!

[icowden]

Was this an open toilet area with cubicles? Or a enclosed single use unisex one, like a disabled toilet? Very different from a unisex general toilet.

Either way these are mixed sex toilets in addition to single sex ones aren't they? But in effect just women using it? Sounds fine. Plenty of choice. Would you have been happy with her using a traditional open toilet area with cubicles but you'd seen only men going in there and no women?

What a weird question. I don't know. I didn't use it. My daughter is 17. She can go to the loo where she chooses.

 

[AndyRM]

When they refurbed the Men's changing room for swimming at my local leisure centre a few years ago. They made the Women's into a unisex changing room for a fortnight. Guess what? The women who had to change their little girls for swimming lessons weren't happy about it. There were half a dozen cubicles and the rest was benches and hooks.

So, not recently then.

Guess what? My daughter is nails and afraid of nobody.

 

[AuroraSaab]

What a weird question. I don't know. I didn't use it. My daughter is 17. She can go to the loo where she chooses.

You seemed to be suggesting that mixed sex toilets aren't a problem. They are for a lot of women and girls, and single user mixed sex is very different from open spaces that are mixed sex. As far as I know the 02 has both single sex and mixed sex toilets on each level so, as you say, she can choose the mixed sex one if she wishes and leave the single sex spaces to those who want those.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So, not recently then. Guess what? My daughter is nails and afraid of nobody.

I'm not sure women's attitudes to getting undressed in the same room as men will have changed much in recent years. It's still unpopular.

Your daughter is rock hard is she? Good for her. Not all girls are and it shouldn't require 'being hard as nails and afraid of nobody' to feel comfortable getting undressed for swimming. Her toughness wouldn't prevent her being filmed by hidden cameras either, which are much more prevalent in mixed sex spaces than single sex ones.

And the obvious point still stands - neither she nor you can consent for other women who don't share your enthusiasm for undressing around the opposite sex.

 

[AndyRM]

I'm not sure women's attitudes to getting undressed in the same room as men will have changed much in recent years. It's still unpopular.

Your daughter is rock hard is she? Good for her. Not all girls are and it shouldn't require 'being hard as nails and afraid of nobody' to feel comfortable getting undressed for swimming. Her toughness wouldn't prevent her being filmed by hidden cameras either, which are much more prevalent in mixed sex spaces than single sex ones.

And the obvious point still stands - neither she nor you can consent for other women who don't share your enthusiasm for undressing around the opposite sex.

Oh. Oh dear. You've written things which I haven't, again.

 

[CXRAndy]

Heard an interesting comment.

Why is it, transgender conversion therapy offer only two options, male to female or female to male.

🤔

 

[AuroraSaab]

Because it's based on stereotypes. That means dumping one set of stereotypes and adopting another set wholesale. Without the sex coded stereotypes there's nothing to 'transition' to.

In terms of surgery though there are some extreme body modifications on offer. You can keep your penis but also get an artificial hole added, or you can go down the 'nullification' route and have no genitals whatsoever.
It's not a mental health issue though, nope, not at all...

 

[CXRAndy]

Good news


View: https://x.com/i/status/2033853804802625620

 

[AuroraSaab]

Sensible decision.

I see Women's Hour is continuing to beclown itself by addressing toxic masculinity (in the wake of Louis Theroux's Manosphere documentary) by having a man on, giving him the opportunity to talk about the 'misogyny' he faces as a trans identifying man. It's not the same, mate. Telling us you're a woman is misogyny.

 

[Electric_Andy]

After some thinking, I feel I have changed my view on this. I used to see these right wing americans asking "what is a woman" and pretty much dismissing any answer that did not involve vaginas. But, a friend had a son, who for the last 5 years has been a woman. Am I to deny her the right to call herself a woman now? Probably not. We call her by her (traditionally female) name and it's sort of normal now. It just goes to show, unless you have friends or loved ones that have done this, one's opinion can be stuck in the once-traditional status quo. That's how it's made me feel anyway

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Am I to deny her the right to call herself a woman now? Probably not.

And to participate in women's sport?

 

[CXRAndy]

And to participate in women's sport?

Or enter women's toilets, changing rooms, refuges, hospital wards?

If they can accept this, they can live a perfectly happy life.

 

[mickle]

After some thinking, I feel I have changed my view on this. I used to see these right wing americans asking "what is a woman" and pretty much dismissing any answer that did not involve vaginas. But, a friend had a son, who for the last 5 years has been a woman. Am I to deny her the right to call herself a woman now? Probably not. We call her by her (traditionally female) name and it's sort of normal now. It just goes to show, unless you have friends or loved ones that have done this, one's opinion can be stuck in the once-traditional status quo. That's how it's made me feel anyway

Shame on you for pandering to his fetish.

 

[AuroraSaab]

But, a friend had a son, who for the last 5 years has been a woman. Am I to deny her the right to call herself a woman now? Probably not. We call her by her (traditionally female) name and it's sort of normal now. It just goes to show, unless you have friends or loved ones that have done this, one's opinion can be stuck in the once-traditional status quo. That's how it's made me feel anyway

His decision comes at no cost to you whatsoever though does it? It's easier and kinder to your friend to go along with what has happened than think about the harm that his child saying he is a woman brings to others. If your friend's child uses women's spaces why isn't your sympathy with the women who don't want him there? He might be a lovely person but he's male.

If your friend's child was white and announced he was now black would you say:

Am I to deny him the right to call himself a black person now?

That's what you're asking women to do. Pretend a man is the same as us. It's insulting.

You're also mistaken if you think other people don't have experience of trans identifying men.

 

[AndyRM]

After some thinking, I feel I have changed my view on this. I used to see these right wing americans asking "what is a woman" and pretty much dismissing any answer that did not involve vaginas. But, a friend had a son, who for the last 5 years has been a woman. Am I to deny her the right to call herself a woman now? Probably not. We call her by her (traditionally female) name and it's sort of normal now. It just goes to show, unless you have friends or loved ones that have done this, one's opinion can be stuck in the once-traditional status quo. That's how it's made me feel anyway

Chapeau.

Didn't take long for the usual suspects to begin their pish.