Gender again. Sorry!

[AuroraSaab]

The fact that there is a tiny number - it's like 1 birth every 3 years in the UK - of males with a dsd that results in them being incorrectly sexed at birth doesn't mean it's therefore impossible to have single sex spaces.

Unfortunately, if some men aren't prepared to follow the protocols that everyone else does - then such men can expect to be asked to leave or be removed from women's spaces. And yes, how they look is likely to play a part.


View: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTfnH_uCD7l/


I'd rather people used the facilities appropriate to their sex and advocated for additional mixed sex spaces if they wish. You seem to think it's ok for men to use women's spaces as long as they can get away with it.

 

[icowden]

I'd rather people used the facilities appropriate to their sex and advocated for additional mixed sex spaces if they wish. You seem to think it's ok for men to use women's spaces as long as they can get away with it.

I'm giving up now.

 

[mickle]

I'm giving up now.

View attachment 15529

It's you that's spectacularly missed the point mate.

 

[mickle]

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Toilets again
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...avatories-breach-girls-rights-judge-scotland/

 

[AuroraSaab]

Same case I think, no pay wall.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sc...k-rowling-warning-after-scottish-37249714.amp

The judge makes an important point that quite a few organisations don't seem to grasp. No advice, whether deliberately erroneous or well intentioned, over rides what the actual law says.

Schoolgirls, whether they're 8 or 15, don't want to be in cubicles next to boys, and it's not just because of safety issues.

 

[icowden]

Schoolgirls, whether they're 8 or 15, don't want to be in cubicles next to boys, and it's not just because of safety issues.

This case was about a girl in Primary 1 , so 5 to 6 years old, so it wasn't at all about safety issues. It's about little boys bullying and keeping toilets clean because they don't aim very well. This is why in Primary Schools, toilets are usually gendered. It is not possible to have a transwoman or transman in Primary 1 and child protection should be involved if a parent alleges that a 5 year old is transgender.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Here's a BBC report on a man who made death threats to schools. He doesn't seem to be trans but for some reason the BBC decided not to mention that the threats were made to girl schools and were seeking revenge for how trans identifying men are treated by women and girls.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0e20ll9gz2o

Perhaps the facts didn't pass the approval of the LGBTQetc desk that is allowed to control which stories can be covered.

Covered properly in other outlets:

He got 2 years, 4 months.

 

[AuroraSaab]

This case was about a girl in Primary 1 , so 5 to 6 years old, so it wasn't at all about safety issues. It's about little boys bullying and keeping toilets clean because they don't aim very well. This is why in Primary Schools, toilets are usually gendered. It is not possible to have a transwoman or transman in Primary 1 and child protection should be involved if a parent alleges that a 5 year old is transgender.

Safety issues can mean little boys bullying or trying to humiliate little girls btw. They don't have to be trans because the issue is - and always has been- their being male, not how they identify.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

It is not possible to have a transwoman or transman in Primary 1 and child protection should be involved if a parent alleges that a 5 year old is transgender.

In itself a sensible statement (although I believe it was a 5 - 11 school). In context of the current discussion, less coherent. It may be time to take a step back @icowden. Maybe a quiet walk in the park.
The important bit in the reported case is the judge's comment regarding the Scottish govt guidance and the law.

 

[icowden]

In itself a sensible statement (although I believe it was a 5 - 11 school). In context of the current discussion, less coherent.

Discussion or just Aurora shouting into the void about her bathroom obsession?

 

[AuroraSaab]

Firstly, it's trans activists who frame it as being all about toilets because 'We just want to pee' garners more sympathy than discussing men in women's rape support groups or men in lesbian groups. People like you are their useful idiots.

Secondly, toilets are a wedge issue. If you are giving men access to women's toilets on a person by person basis (based on appearance, self id, or whatever), on what grounds would you refuse the same men access to women's changing rooms? Then to women's hospital wards? Then to women's domestic violence refuges? Then to women's mental health units?

The supreme court made it clear that the Equality Act must be consistent across all spaces that have been deemed single sex.

Get busy advocating for third mixed sex spaces, Iain. You, your wife and daughters, the trans identifying folk, and everybody else who doesn't mind sharing with men can 'just pee' to your hearts content.

 

[icowden]

Secondly, toilets are a wedge issue. If you are giving men access to women's toilets on a person by person basis (based on appearance, self id, or whatever), on what grounds would you refuse the same men access to women's changing rooms? Then to women's hospital wards? Then to women's domestic violence refuges? Then to women's mental health units?

I'll try in small words.

Toilet access is not policed.
It's based entirely on etiquette and expectation.
I went somewhere where it seemed not to be a problem for anyone to use any toilet.
This leads me to suppose that perhaps this is a less problematic than you think it is.

That's it.

If you cant put a farking dna machine on the door, then ANYONE can use ANY toilet. There is no law, rule or stricture to prevent it.
The only thing bathroom obsessives are going is making life worse for anyone who doesn't "look right". So butch lesbians or particularly manly or tall women get challenged.

You are punching yourself repeatedly in the face over an issue that isn't really an issue as far as I can see, because you seem to still belong to the generation that wanted doilies over table legs in case men started humping tables.

 

[Shortfall]

Discussion or just Aurora shouting into the void about her bathroom obsession?

Not that she needs any help from me, but to the best of my knowledge Aurora is one of the few actual women who posts on this site which is very well represented by middle class professional men. So if she isn't shouting into a void then she's shouting into something of an echo chamber. You probably imagine yourself to be on the progressive side of politics and yet in recent days you've asked her "Are you sure you're a woman? " and told her to stop "getting her knickers in a twist". You couldn't sound more condescending if you tried. What's next? Telling her to "Calm down love!"

 

[bobzmyunkle]

I went somewhere where it seemed not to be a problem for anyone to use any toilet.

Seemed.
And your 'somewhere' appears to have been a busy private club with predominantly middle class clientele. I suggest the safety aspect was definitely policed, if only implicitly.
As for

just Aurora shouting into the void about her bathroom obsession?

Sort yourself out.