How to Win Friends and Influence People

[Milkfloat]

Scum - labelling anyone this is hardly going to produce a loving, caring society, and will do nothing to heal the deep divisions. It's also dehumanising.

True, but it got some attention and headlines.

Homophobic - which party paved the way for gay marriage?

The party now is very different from the party that helped pave the way.

Racist - does the party have no ethnic minorities in its midst? (And don't forget white privilege is racist ... .)

Oh, the my best friend is black argument. Sorry, does not work

Misogynistic - which party has already produced two female prime ministers when the progressive left haven't yet had one? And is this party likely to repeal all the equality legislation in the near future?

One is ancient history and the other was stabbed in the back by the current crop. Seeing as the Tories have pretty much run the country for the last 50 years, there has not been much of a chance for another party to have a female prime minister. However, I do think that Labour potentially have that problem too. SNP, the Greens and Lib Dem have at least had female leaders, with the SNP and Greens doing pretty well.

Vile, nasty, Etonian - smacks of envy. Doesn't sit well with the desire of the left for speech codes. Would carry more weight if fewer Labour politicians didn't privately educate their own children.

As been discussed before, the number of Prime Ministers that come from one school, built on pure privilege and arrogance is astounding and not good for the country.

This is in no way a defence of the current Conservative administration, which deserves criticism, but this needs to be accurate and there are ways of doing this that aren't going to be counter-productive and look like a throw back to student activist days. Such emoting might be the result of frustration at not being able to do much about such an incompetent government, I can understand that, but such impotent rage is not going to change anything either.

To be fair, Raynor has gone up in my estimation, it shows she cares passionately about the country.

 

[winjim]

Homophobic - which party paved the way for gay marriage?

The Liberal Democrats.

 

[Cirrus]

Rayner, Philips and Long-Bailey should share the leader of the opposition post, doubt Labour would get into power but PMQs would be carnage, crying cabinet ministers littering the front bench or running back to nanny for some comfort.

 

[Archie_tect]

Rayner, Philips and Long-Bailey should share the leader of the opposition post, doubt Labour would get into power but PMQs would be carnage, crying cabinet ministers littering the front bench or running back to nanny for some comfort.

I'd vote for them... even better if its was a coalition with the Green Party...

 

[icowden]

If they want power, they need to get to grips with the idea that they need a liberal coalition. Labour / Lib Dem / Green and SNP.
Under a coalition they could then bring about electoral reform to put proper proportional representation in place thus ensuring that we can never again be ruled purely by extreme right wing idealists.

 

[winjim]

If they want power, they need to get to grips with the idea that they need a liberal coalition. Labour / Lib Dem / Green and SNP.
Under a coalition they could then bring about electoral reform to put proper proportional representation in place thus ensuring that we can never again be ruled purely by extreme right wing idealists.

That's a bit tricky when they've just rejected the notion of proportional representation at conference.

 

[Archie_tect]

That's a bit tricky when they've just rejected the notion of proportional representation at conference.

The initial sentence began, "If they want power...". Makes you wonder if any party does these days.

 

[winjim]

The initial sentence began, "If they want power...". Makes you wonder if any party does these days.

It certainly appears that the trade unions do not. I was already angry at my union for being a bunch of Brexit supporting, Tory enabling bastards but at least I have recently pulled my finger out and applied to join a different one so I won't be paying their fees for much longer.

Prevailing Lib Dem opinion appears to be, as it was before really, that Labour are not interested in pacts, or alliances, or coalitions. Remember this come election time.

So there we go, it's Tories forever. Happy days.

 

[Archie_tect]

What Labour need is a charismatic person to get people interested in real socialist principles- not necessarily a politician- an elder statesman akin to David Attenborough... or a serious journalist with political nouse like Kate Adie, or Katya Adler!

 

[Craig the cyclist]

Of course the Labour don't want to get into office. They would be shown as having no policies within days. They are a party of opposition and shouting how well they would do things if only they had the chance, knowing they will never have the chance! There are simply no credible, serious Labour politicians.

It is worth recalling their record over the last 40 or so years.... lose, lose, lose, lose, Blair, Blair, Blair, lose, lose, lose, lose.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Of course the Labour don't want to get into office. They would be shown as having no policies within days. They are a party of opposition and shouting how well they would do things if only they had the chance, knowing they will never have the chance! There are simply

I'm not to sure where you've been since Starmer took over...but I've not seen much opposition or shouting 🙄

 

[Pale Rider]

proper proportional representation

There's no such thing.

Take a look at the recent German election, no party wins enough seats to form a government (as usual with PR) so there follows months of murky secret meetings and deal making.

Is that really a desirable way to form a Government?

The electorate has no say in who comes out of the horsetrading on top.

I also wonder about the interregnum.

Does the existing government carry on as a lame duck, or is the Fatherland left without leadership until all the deals have been done?

 

[Hitchington]

I couldn't agree more with Angela Rayner. Spot on.

After all there is plenty of evidence https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/the-nasty-party.236921/

 

[Bromptonaut]

There's no such thing.

Take a look at the recent German election, no party wins enough seats to form a government (as usual with PR) so there follows months of murky secret meetings and deal making.

Is that really a desirable way to form a Government?

The electorate has no say in who comes out of the horsetrading on top.

I also wonder about the interregnum.

Does the existing government carry on as a lame duck, or is the Fatherland left without leadership until all the deals have been done?

The interregnum and the caretaker role are baked into the German system. The politicians and the public understand how it works. If it gave then 16 years of Merkel led stability it can't be that bad.

 

[Pale Rider]

The politicians and the public understand how it works.

According to wiki, about 70% of the electorate didn't understand first and second votes.

Although I suppose simply slapping an X next to the candidates who appeal to you the most is good enough.

Quoting: "According to public polls, about 70% (2002) to 63% (2005) of the voters mistakenly thought the first vote to be more important than the second."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_system_of_Germany