Israel / Palestine

[winjim]

Looks like nobody has any specific idea what they mean when they say Free Palestine, apart from Ian maybe. We'll be where we are now in 10 years time then.

I dunno, we're watching a literal Holocaust being perpetrated in real time, aided and abetted by the most powerful regime in the world and encouraged by our own elected representatives. It doesn't really seem appropriate to quibble over semantics.

However, I will clarify that when I say 'Free Palestine' I am using it as shorthand for 'freedom for the people of Palestine' since it's the people who are suffering and the people who are having their human rights violated. Nations are rather nebulous things to define, but nation states as we understand them don't have rights, that sort of claim is the preserve of tedious bumwipes who like to prattle on about 'Israel's right to exist', or 'Israel's right to self defence'. The nation state of Israel has no such rights outside of the purely subjective and arbitrary constructs we create. Even then it could be argued that those rights become forfeit if they are contingent on literal genocide being carried out.

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

 

[AuroraSaab]

How can you hope to bring about something you can't define?

 

[winjim]

A literal Holocaust. Happening right now, live streamed to our phones. Atrocity after atrocity beamed into our brains 24 hours a day and nobody is doing anything to stop it. Get out of here with your linguistic gotchas, they don't work on me.

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

 

[matticus]

Just peeked in on this thread after leaving it for many months and Jesus Christ it's ruined my Sunday. Honestly if a stupid little bumfark internet forum is still going round in circles after a year how on Earth do you expect a US backed Israel to ever come to its senses?

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

Finally - here is a problem I have a solution to!

 

[AndyRM]

A literal Holocaust. Happening right now, live streamed to our phones. Atrocity after atrocity beamed into our brains 24 hours a day and nobody is doing anything to stop it. Get out of here with your linguistic gotchas, they don't work on me.

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

You've been pretty clear and I don't see how anyone could struggle to see otherwise.

 

[spen666]

Freedom for Palestine? Does that include the Freedom to attack people attending music festivals or freedom to launch missiles into Israeli town and settlements?

Security for Israel - is that by eliminating all Palestinians?

Both sides are to blame here. People seem to jump onto one side or the other
Its either all the fault of the Israelis attacking Palestinians or all the fault of Arabs attacking Israel and Israelis in the minds of most posting on here, and taking sides around the world.

There will never be peace in the region until people everywhere accept that both sides are wrong and both sides are right.


If only life were so simple that everything had a single cause and a single solution.
Entrenched views on here are symptomatic of the problem. The world is not black and white (Unless you are a Newcastle United, Notts County or Grimsby Town Fan) and it's not one side good the other evil.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Get out of here with your linguistic gotchas, they don't work on me.

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

An end to the current hostilities would be a start obviously. You want to free Palestine but you can't even say what a free Palestine consists of. It's currently a moot point because of Hamas and Netanyahu but there will be a point where it can be addressed again and it's not a linguistic gotcha to ask how you think the thing you say you want might look.

 

[Ian H]

Freedom for Palestine? Does that include the Freedom to attack people attending music festivals or freedom to launch missiles into Israeli town and settlements?

Security for Israel - is that by eliminating all Palestinians?

Both sides are to blame here. People seem to jump onto one side or the other

The Israelis have been harassing, imprisoning, evicting, and sometimes killing Palestinians for decades. They have expropriated vast areas of Palestinian land, and basically created a powder-keg which blew up in their faces. Now they're engaged in an increasingly, grotesquely disproportionate response.
And no, I'm not condoning the killings of Israeli civilians.

 

[spen666]

The Israelis have been harassing, imprisoning, evicting, and sometimes killing Palestinians for decades. They have expropriated vast areas of Palestinian land, and basically created a powder-keg which blew up in their faces. Now they're engaged in an increasingly, grotesquely disproportionate response.
And no, I'm not condoning the killings of Israeli civilians.

QED

My point proven straight off.

Thanks Ian

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Looks like nobody has any specific idea what they mean when they say Free Palestine, apart from Ian maybe. We'll be where we are now in 10 years time then.

Freedom from tyranny.
Freedom from murder.
Freedom from oppression.
Freedom from occupation.
Freedom from rape.
Freedom from torture.
Freedom from induced starvation.
Freedom from eviction.
Freedom from confinement.
Freedom from surveillance.
Freedom from persecution.
Freedom from apartheid.
Freedom from Israel.

 

[Ian H]

QED

My point proven straight off.

Thanks Ian

In your dreams. Give me the Israeli side. Show me the same level of harm and aggression from Palestinians.

 

[spen666]

Freedom from tyranny.
Freedom from murder.
Freedom from oppression.
Freedom from occupation.
Freedom from rape.
Freedom from torture.
Freedom from induced starvation.
Freedom from eviction.
Freedom from confinement.
Freedom from surveillance.
Freedom from persecution.
Freedom from apartheid.
Freedom from Israel.

But still freedom to launch murderous attacks on Israel and freedom to launch rocket attack on Israeli citizens?


A solution requires both sides to play their part, not just one side demanding the other side stop

 

[glasgowcyclist]

But still freedom to launch murderous attacks on Israel and freedom to launch rocket attack on Israeli citizens?


A solution requires both sides to play their part, not just one side demanding the other side stop

Palestinians are under a murderous, military occupation. They have every right to resist that and defend themselves. As the occupying military force, Israel can claim no right of self-defence.

 

[winjim]

An end to the current hostilities would be a start obviously. You want to free Palestine but you can't even say what a free Palestine consists of. It's currently a moot point because of Hamas and Netanyahu but there will be a point where it can be addressed again and it's not a linguistic gotcha to ask how you think the thing you say you want might look.

I'm not sure 'an end to the current hostilities' is quite where I'm at. I want Israel to cease its genocidal rampage, for those responsible including foreign actors who have been aiding and abetting to be tried in an international court and for reparations to be made to the Palestinian people. (And increasingly the Lebanese and God knows who else in the region).

That would be a start.

Free Palestine 🇵🇸

 

[spen666]

Palestinians are under a murderous, military occupation. They have every right to resist that and defend themselves. As the occupying military force, Israel can claim no right of self-defence.

And another.

Take the rose tinted glasses off.

The 7/10 attack for one under no criteria can be described as self defence.

Wake upand see the fact both sides are in the wrong in their use of violence