Israel / Palestine

[multitool]

I don't think you can assess the Israelis feelings about the war based on how we feel about the war. We haven't got the history, any of it, including the bits that can be used to justify a brutal response to 7/10, or indeed a brutal response to any perceived threat seen through the eyes of people who have faced discrimination, violence and genocide for many centuries. To attempt to do so would be ethnocentricism.

We also do not have nearly a century of increasing institutional dehumanisation of the Palestinians generated by our society (and if you think that the UK is hostile to them, then you've not spent much time in the company of Israelis.)

Equally, we would be guilty of ignorance if we thought that a love/hatred of Nethanyahu and the fascist element of his government equates to a love/hatred of the war.

When, some months back, there were huge protests in Israel about the war they were not anti-war protests, and they most certainly not pro-Palestinian. They were anti-Bibi.

The hair-trigger crew here will read this as a defence of Israel, but it really isn't. The truth is that victim-culture, the fear of genocide and innate extreme racism has driven us to this point, coupled with political expediency on the part of Nethanyahu and political opportunism on the part of the fascist constituent of his coalition.

 

[C R]

I don't think you can assess the Israelis feelings about the war based on how we feel about the war. We haven't got the history, any of it, including the bits that can be used to justify a brutal response to 7/10, or indeed a brutal response to any perceived threat seen through the eyes of people who have faced discrimination, violence and genocide for many centuries. To attempt to do so would be ethnocentricism.

We also do not have nearly a century of increasing institutional dehumanisation of the Palestinians generated by our society (and if you think that the UK is hostile to them, then you've not spent much time in the company of Israelis.)

Equally, we would be guilty of ignorance if we thought that a love/hatred of Nethanyahu and the fascist element of his government equates to a love/hatred of the war.

When, some months back, there were huge protests in Israel about the war they were not anti-war protests, and they most certainly not pro-Palestinian. They were anti-Bibi.

The hair-trigger crew here will read this as a defence of Israel, but it really isn't. The truth is that victim-culture, the fear of genocide and innate extreme racism has driven us to this point, coupled with political expediency on the part of Nethanyahu and political opportunism on the part of the fascist constituent of his coalition.

All of the above and the US and Europe looking the other way while bankrolling the massacre.

 

[multitool]

All of the above and the US and Europe looking the other way while bankrolling the massacre.

You know, when the transcripts of western leaders meetings from this period come out I'm pretty sure they will all excoriate Nethanyahu and his war.

What elected politicians want to say, and what they can say are not the same.

Also, as you well know from my input in other threads, I believe that politicians have a much more limited range of options in front of them (most of which are shìt) than it would appear for a variety of reasons.

It's like the various energy wars that have occurred in the last 35 years. Horrid, and all about oil and not morality and we are incensed by them.

But could we countenance petrol stations running dry, houses left unheated and energy reliant industry grinding to a halt? Could we fûck.

 

[C R]

The Times of Israel actually used the word lebensraum in a blog post, which they then tried to memory hole

but not very successfully

 

[C R]

You know, when the transcripts of western leaders meetings from this period come out I'm pretty sure they will all excoriate Nethanyahu and his war.

What elected politicians want to say, and what they can say are not the same.

Also, as you well know from my input in other threads, I believe that politicians have a much more limited range of options in front of them (most of which are shìt) than it would appear for a variety of reasons.

It's like the various energy wars that have occurred in the last 35 years. Horrid, and all about oil and not morality and we are incensed by them.

But could we countenance petrol stations running dry, houses left unheated and energy reliant industry grinding to a halt? Could we fûck.

That doesn't stop Palestinians dying, cowards the lot of them.

 

[multitool]

That doesn't stop Palestinians dying, cowards the lot of them.

You haven't understood a word I just said.

 

[C R]

You haven't understood a word I just said.

I understood perfectly, and that's why I used the word cowards.

 

[multitool]

I understood perfectly, and that's why I used the word cowards.

You'd only think that if you viewed our world as consisting of simple binaries. Jeez, it isn't even a question of morality sometimes because it can't be.

Do you think Stalin and Hitler made the Ribentrop pact because of cowardice and because they approved of each other?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

.



Quite a few accounts from reputable reporters based in Israel for UK news outlets say many Israeli public are not very aware of exactly what is happening in Gaza. Apparently the video we see on TV news of a devastated wasteland are not shown on Israeli TV.

Of course they have internet but that requires them to search out foreign press and apparently most don't.

Ian

Which is not true, it's not that if UK outlets report it that they don't know, why do you think Nethanyahu is so unpopulair? Party because of the hostages, Party of October 7th happening in the first place, party because his goverment supported Hamas, party because he sucks as a person. None of aboven is reported on isreali state tv, still they know. How could that possibly happen?

 

[C R]

You'd only think that if you viewed our world as consisting of simple binaries. Jeez, it isn't even a question of morality sometimes because it can't be.

Do you think Stalin and Hitler made the Ribentrop pact because of cowardice and because they approved of each other?

No, Britain and France looked the other way while Hitler used the Spanish civil war as a training exercise because they saw him as a lesser evil than Stalin, that was cowardice. The Ribentrop pact was an act of expediency between two ärseholes.

The US and Europe have consistently let Israel get away with literal murder partly because of the genocide guilt trip and to a large extent because of racism. Israel could have been forced into the two state solution a long time ago, but there was never the leadership.

 

[multitool]

It is much, much more complicated than that.

 

[C R]

It is much, much more complicated than that.

Oh, really.

 

[multitool]

Oh, really.

Yep. Give it a few years until the memoirs come out.

 

[C R]

Yep. Give it a few years until the memoirs come out.

Is your reading comprehension really this bad?

 

[multitool]

If you are going to start insulting then the discussion with you is over