Israel / Palestine

[BoldonLad]

It's been going on far longer than that.
Zionist political violence refers to acts of political violence or terrorism committed by Zionists in support of establishing and maintaining a Jewish state in Palestine. These actions have been carried out by individuals, paramilitary groups, and the State of Israel and its military forces from the early 20th century to the present day, as part of the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

Yes, I knew that, I think there may even be reference to it in the Bible. Maybe Channel4 don't know?, or, maybe they are leaving their options for a prequel or two open.

 

[Ian H]

Yes, I knew that, I think there may even be reference to it in the Bible. Maybe Channel4 don't know?, or, maybe they are leaving their options for a prequel or two open.

The link in my last post is an invitation to find out more.
In the pre-state period (1920s–1940s), Zionist paramilitaries such as the Irgun, Lehi, Haganah and Palmach engaged in violent campaigns against British authorities, Palestinian Arabs, and more moderate Jews to advance their political goals. Targets included security personnel, government figures, civilians, and infrastructure.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Aurora is bagging up on Monker's favourites
Then she will drop the MOAB of insults 😜
She will probably end up with a whole bombardment, given how much monkers tips the swear jar 😂

I think the arguments should stand on their own merit regardless of who makes them, so that won't be happening.

 

[BoldonLad]

The link in my last post is an invitation to find out more.
In the pre-state period (1920s–1940s), Zionist paramilitaries such as the Irgun, Lehi, Haganah and Palmach engaged in violent campaigns against British authorities, Palestinian Arabs, and more moderate Jews to advance their political goals. Targets included security personnel, government figures, civilians, and infrastructure.

Yes, thank you, but, I had already read that.

 

[multitool]

There was a Channel4 program recently, about, what they described as the "50 Years War", (ie the Palestine "situation"),

Might you be getting mixed up with the BBC series "Fifty Years War: Israel and the Arabs"?

It was first aired just over a year ago and covers 1948-98.

 

[BoldonLad]

Might you be getting mixed up with the BBC series "Fifty Years War: Israel and the Arabs"?

It was first aired just over a year ago and covers 1948-98.

My grovelling apologies it was BBC4 not Channel4, and shown recently. I recorded it. 😊

 

[multitool]

My grovelling apologies it was BBC4 not Channel4, and shown recently. I recorded it. 😊

No need to apologise. First aired at the end of 2023, but likely repeated.

Do you use iPlayer by the way? Loads and loads of fantastic BBC stuff on there available to stream.

 

[BoldonLad]

No need to apologise. First aired at the end of 2023, but likely repeated.

Do you use iPlayer by the way? Loads and loads of fantastic BBC stuff on there available to stream.

Yes, used iPlayer, and the ITV etc equivalents, but, also have recording capability (useful for skipping ads, not applicable in this instance).

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

It's been going on far longer than that.
Zionist political violence refers to acts of political violence or terrorism committed by Zionists in support of establishing and maintaining a Jewish state in Palestine. These actions have been carried out by individuals, paramilitary groups, and the State of Israel and its military forces from the early 20th century to the present day, as part of the ongoing Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionist_political_violence

From that same article During the conflict between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before the war, the criterion of "Purity of arms" was used to distinguish between the respective attitudes of the Irgun and Haganah towards Arabs, with the latter priding itself on its adherence to principle.[33] The Jewish society in the British Mandate Palestine generally disapproved and denounced violent attacks both on grounds of moral rejection and political disagreement, stressing that terrorism is counter-productive in the Zionist quest for Jewish self-determination.[10] Generally speaking, this precept requires that "weapons remain pure [and that] they are employed only in self-defence and [never] against innocent civilians and defenceless people under ''Jewish public opinion

So it seems support for this terrorism isn't as clear cut as some claim. it's a bit more complicated, still don't see what dragging events of more than 50 years ago into this, but maybe that's just an lack of arguments.
I think that whole shitshow of Hamas whilst releasing hostages is disgusting and it makes sense for Isreal to respond to it, i just dont think risking that whole peace agreement should be the way to go.
But then again, Nathanyahu is good friends with Trump isn't very popular amongst the Isreali population to say the least, especially with 4 years of american backing in his mind i don't think he is really in an hurry to end this war.

 

[Ian H]

From that same article During the conflict between Arabs and Jews in Palestine before the war, the criterion of "Purity of arms" was used to distinguish between the respective attitudes of the Irgun and Haganah towards Arabs, with the latter priding itself on its adherence to principle.[33] The Jewish society in the British Mandate Palestine generally disapproved and denounced violent attacks both on grounds of moral rejection and political disagreement, stressing that terrorism is counter-productive in the Zionist quest for Jewish self-determination.[10] Generally speaking, this precept requires that "weapons remain pure [and that] they are employed only in self-defence and [never] against innocent civilians and defenceless people under ''Jewish public opinion

So it seems support for this terrorism isn't as clear cut as some claim. it's a bit more complicated, still don't see what dragging events of more than 50 years ago into this, but maybe that's just an lack of arguments.
I think that whole shitshow of Hamas whilst releasing hostages is disgusting and it makes sense for Isreal to respond to it, i just dont think risking that whole peace agreement should be the way to go.
But then again, Nathanyahu is good friends with Trump isn't very popular amongst the Isreali population to say the least, especially with 4 years of american backing in his mind i don't think he is really in an hurry to end this war.

No-one has argued that all Jews or even all Zionists/Israelis support the removal of Palestinians. The point is that some Zionists do in a murderous fashion and that they have been oppressing, dispossessing and killing Palestinians for a very long time.

To put it more simply: it's the same fúcking conflict.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Can it really be a year since this?

RIP Aaron Bushnell

 

[CXRAndy]

What a numpty

 

[multitool]

Weird isn't it.

We are sending arms and money to Ukraine to fight the Russian occupation.

We aren't sending arms and money to the Palestinians to fight the Israeli occupation in Gaza and the West Bank.

 

[Psamathe]

We aren't sending arms and money to the Palestinians to fight the Israeli occupation in Gaza and the West Bank.

But I assume the Israelis will have to find some massive payback (money & resources & maybe Gaza a Lago?) once Trump finishes extorting Ukraine. They have and. continue to get vast value of arms, not loans to be paid back. Wonder what Trump has his eyes on as payback?

And they can't give Trump Gaza as it's not theirs to give. Maybe offer to bug the phones of everyone Trump suspects of disloyalty? (at least as a downpayment ... or is that being done already?)

Ian

 

[multitool]

Yes, but I'm not making a point about Trump. I'm talking about how we are told to view the Ukrainians as brave heroes resisting the Russian occupation, helping fund them and taking in their refugees.

And yet, we are told to support Israel despite the fact they are the invaders and occupiers, and be distrustful of Palestinians, criticise them when the resist the occupation, blackball them from almost all media coverage and prevent the victims of Israeli violence from seeking refuge in our country.

It's extraordinary and it's so pervasive that you've got the worst examples of humanity in our own country cheering on a genocide.