Reform, and the death of the Tory Party

[Ian H]

The Tories did that as well: they broke the system (it doesn't matter whether it was by design and/or incompetence), and then blamed the very people who had been impacted by the change.

It's a regular populist tactic, so we shouldn't be surprised. All populist movements need an 'other' to blame, whether that's some fictional 'elite' or some downtrodden or 'out' section of society (that can even be cyclists) that the populists will persuade enough people to blame for complex (and probably intractable) problems.

Populists need problems, and if there aren't enough, they'll persuade the masses that the world is going to hell in a handcart anyway (see Brexit), as it's the only way they can win.

They need an out-group against whom they can whip up hatred.

 

[CXRAndy]

Lefties create problems

 

[Psamathe]

The Tories did that as well: they broke the system (it doesn't matter whether it was by design and/or incompetence), and then blamed the very people who had been impacted by the change.

I suppose I was thinking one step back in that were we still member of the EU and thus been covered under Dublin III there would be no need for any system and thus nothing for the Conservatives to break. ie Asylum seekers landing on our shores would have been covered under Dublin III so most would not be able to try and claim asylum in the UK and would be automatically returned to their EU country of original entry where they would have to claim asylum.

And with that Dublin agreement no refugees would be spending a fortune to get in any boats and risk their lives as there would be no point as most would not be able to claim asylum in the UK, no appeals process as no asylum claim, automatic return to first (safe) EU country entered.

But I guess Farnagē didn't like that so created the issues he's now bleating on about.

nb Personally I don't view it as an issue as numbers are small so we as a wealthy country can manage anyway were we not being badly let down by our politicians. Even were those awaiting asylum allowed to work (as they are in many EU countries) we'd not have the same costs but again a political choice that aggravates the rethoric.

 

[briantrumpet]

nb Personally I don't view it as an issue as numbers are small so we as a wealthy country can manage anyway were we not being badly let down by our politicians. Even were those awaiting asylum allowed to work (as they are in many EU countries) we'd not have the same costs but again a political choice that aggravates the rethoric.

In the grand scheme of things, of course it's a non-issue, but unlike most people coming to the UK, it's very visible, and Farage's skill is in latching onto stuff that sells clicks/papers, and seeps into people's consciousness without them realising. (As a side note, it's notable that, for instance, aeroplane crashes get lots of coverage, but in comparison to the death toll from famine and disease it's a tiny figure: once numbers get above a certain size, the deaths are just an amorphous unfortunate number, but lower numbers are personal. As a mind exercise, try to imagine a million dead people, then, say, 200: the latter is conceptually easy, the former almost impossible - it is *just a number*.)

I do actually get annoyed by nice people I know sharing crap on FB about "1000 migrants crossed the channel in small boats this week!!" while any sense of proportion or attempt to understand why it's happening is ignored.

 

[briantrumpet]

The media are doing their bit to get Farage as PM. How about asking him hard questions about all this stuff?

 

[Psamathe]

The media are doing their bit to get Farage as PM. How about asking him hard questions about all this stuff?

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Listening to a podcast today and they were making the point that he actually does have a "track record" and that nobody is holding him to account over it. He was largely responsible for Brexit and in reality for the agreements made (to the "harder" end of the scale). Yet nobody is holding him to account over that.

And his "not my fault, not the Brexit I wanted" is irrelevant as he was making broad promises as to how Brexit was the answer to everything not qualified so time he was held to account.

Listening to Newsnight the other day and they had Tice on and he was claiming how the majority asylum seekers were economic migrants though stats I've seen this is twaddle yet it's BBC so no questioning his data.

 

[CXRAndy]

Of course they are economic illegal migrants. How do they pay for their crossings?

 

[Xipe Totec]

To be fair we have now reached the point where Reform cannot fail.

 

[All uphill]

"Vote to leave the EU and all your problems will be solved"

. . . obviously didn't work so . . .

"get rid of migrants and all your problems will be solved"

It really is beyond my comprehension how anyone can fall for this grifter's patter a second time.

Who is talking to this demographic, without calling them stupid/idiot?

Who is hearing the distress of people who feel left behind and marginalised?

Not Labour, Lib Dems or the Tories.

 

[Pross]

Who is talking to this demographic, without calling them stupid/idiot?

Who is hearing the distress of people who feel left behind and marginalised?

Not Labour, Lib Dems or the Tories.

I doubt they want to hear from anyone talking to them in honest terms though. Far easier to promise them the moon on a stick and blame 'others' for all their woes. The problem is that when you're actually in power you need to deliver that moon on its stick and people realise you haven't (see the last Government after they won the 'red wall' vote using those tactics). It's hard to be honest about what you can do to make people's lives better when you've got populists on the sidelines promising all sorts they know is BS. Part of me wants to see a reform government so we can see the reality although when they fail it will almost certainly be due to 'others' (probably the Establishment, UN and EU).

 

[Stevo 666]

To be fair we have now reached the point where Reform cannot fail.

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You sure they're not just trying to wind up Welsh politicians?

 

[CXRAndy]

To be fair we have now reached the point where Reform cannot fail.

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Passing through my daughters village this afternoon, the mini roundabouts are now painted with St George's cross markings.

Its arrived in the countryside

 

[Ian H]

 

[CXRAndy]

I doubt they want to hear from anyone talking to them in honest terms though. Far easier to promise them the moon on a stick and blame 'others' for all their woes. The problem is that when you're actually in power you need to deliver that moon on its stick and people realise you haven't (see the last Government after they won the 'red wall' vote using those tactics. It's hard to be honest about what you can do to make people's lives better when you've got populists on the sidelines promising all sorts they know is BS. Part of me wants to see a reform government so we can see the reality although when they fail it will almost certainly be due to 'others' (probably the Establishment, UN and EU).

If reform withdrew the UK from these bodies to push through the will of the people you would not be upset

 

[Pblakeney]

Listening to a podcast today and they were making the point that he actually does have a "track record" and that nobody is holding him to account over it. He was largely responsible for Brexit and in reality for the agreements made (to the "harder" end of the scale). Yet nobody is holding him to account over that.

And his "not my fault, not the Brexit I wanted" is irrelevant as he was making broad promises as to how Brexit was the answer to everything not qualified so time he was held to account.

Listening to Newsnight the other day and they had Tice on and he was claiming how the majority asylum seekers were economic migrants though stats I've seen this is twaddle yet it's BBC so no questioning his data.

I've heard a few of them being interviewed/grandstanding during this week. What a load of bollocks! Would be so easy to pick apart that it is beyond me that more don't. It is a damning statement on the population of this country that so many fall for the promises of unicorns.