Riot!

[BoldonLad]

Noticed how there haven't been any rail disasters for over quarter of a century? Or ferry sinking for almost 40 years? etc etc, or that the truth has been discovered about Grenfell Tower, The Contaminated Blood and The Horizon Post Office scandals?

They are, or can be, highly effective. What is ineffective is the post-inquiry scrutiny of recommendations. That isn't to say that recommendations are not followed up, but that the system for scrutinising whether they are is inadequate.

Depends how you define "disasters" I suppose, plus, is a Public Enquiry the only event in that period? that period roughly coincides with Privatisation of the Railways,

The Ferry example is a doubtful example. I assume you are referring to the Townsend Thorenson ferry Zeebrugge disaster?, Thankfully, there have been no repeats, but, I struggle to find a significant number of examples in the years before that (UK related), so, it is not clear to me that a Public Enquiry caused a change in disaster statistics.

It is the "can be" I am doubting. Contaminated Blood scandal is hardly a good example as how to do things, similarly the Horizon Scandal, Fujistu are still hoovering up Government Contracts, and, redress for victims is glacial.

 

[CXRAndy]

BBC have fact checked and found some tiny anomalies


View: https://x.com/andrewlawrence/status/1883123933677064652?t=KFFulgOK7L8drrFUbllNUA&s=19

 

[multitool]

I think you are conflating scandals with the inquiries into them, aren't you?

As for rail, the track and signalling system was privatised in the mid 90s by the Tories. It went back into public ownership in 2002.

But the wider point stands. Look at the Stephen Lawrence inquiry, and the many other inquiries into the Met. Nobody is suggesting they are an instant panacea, but without them we would be nowhere.

 

[Psamathe]

In life things go wrong. We need some method to identify causes of failures to learn from those mistakes and failings. Inquiries serve such a purpose.

I think the major failings from our system of Inquiries is not the Inquiry but a political failing to listen & implement inquiry findings, putting things in place to avoid repeating mistakes & failings (or putting in place flawed changes, something modern politicians seem to do too frequently).

I feel the failing in our current system is a failing of politicians (to act) rather than a failing of inquiries.

That said I do think the time it takes for inquiries to produce their reports is too long (and politicians tend to ignore "intermediate" reports). I do wonder if different branches of each inquiry could run in parallel with different legal, judicial, etc. teams. Might cost a bit more but if we need an inquiry we need answers to avoid repeat failings.

Ian

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

Some people are psychopaths.

Doesn't really matter about good/evil, you just want them well away from everyone else. Is there any point punishing this guy?

The worst punishment I can think of for him is to find out what is wrong with him and cure him so that he realises what he has done

and then have to live in prison with the knowledge and memories of that day for the rest of his life

I have done some things I am not proud of and don;t like thinking about them

imagine knowing you did what he did and having to live with it??


I don;t think that is possible but maybe.
And if he can't be cured - surely that means he is mentally ill and needs to be in Broadmoor or somewhere similar

maybe I just can't accept a human can do this - hence his mind is ill
or maybe evil does exist


dunno - I'll stop woffling

 

[Rusty Nails]

maybe I just can't accept a human can do this - hence his mind is ill
or maybe evil does exist

If good can exist why can’t evil?

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

If good can exist why can’t evil?

I like to think that humans tend towards good and avoid evil

but there are times I think I an too optimistic but I keep hoping

 

[Rusty Nails]

I like to think that humans tend towards good and avoid evil

but there are times I think I an too optimistic but I keep hoping

I would agree on the 'tend towards' but do not rule out that evil comes easily to too many...and evil, combined with a lack of empathy, gives them more opportunity to stand out to their own advantage

 

[icowden]

I would agree on the 'tend towards' but do not rule out that evil comes easily to too many...and evil, combined with a lack of empathy, gives them more opportunity to stand out to their own advantage

I notice that all the news reports focus on Rudakubana but seldom mention the parents or the failings in mental health care and safeguarding. Clearly by the time he reached 17 his parents thought he would do something appalling and could no longer control him, but his problems seem to have started with the move to secondary school and bullying. He called childline aged 13 due to having murderous thoughts, then was expelled and bounced from PRU to PRU as his obsession with violence grew.

The grauniad has a good write up here:-
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...uming-schoolboy-to-notorious-southport-killer

 

[multitool]

Another foreign grooming gang uncovered.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...members-jailed-for-between-eight-and-20-years

 

[winjim]

The worst punishment I can think of for him is to find out what is wrong with him and cure him so that he realises what he has done

and then have to live in prison with the knowledge and memories of that day for the rest of his life

I have done some things I am not proud of and don;t like thinking about them

imagine knowing you did what he did and having to live with it??


I don;t think that is possible but maybe.
And if he can't be cured - surely that means he is mentally ill and needs to be in Broadmoor or somewhere similar

maybe I just can't accept a human can do this - hence his mind is ill
or maybe evil does exist


dunno - I'll stop woffling

If he did it because he is ill, and you cure him, then you must surely forgive him.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Another foreign grooming gang uncovered.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...members-jailed-for-between-eight-and-20-years

This isn't a grooming gang crime. The children were very young, one still in nappies. This is 2 parents facilitating the rape and abuse of their own children, boys and girls, by men already known to them.

It isn't a case of grooming. You present it as such to pretend that the pattern of behaviour shown in the prosecutions in Rotherham, Oxford, Rochdale, Telford, Bristol, Huddersfield is the same as this Scottish case and therefore it is of no value to analyse or investigate the nature or circumstances of those grooming gangs - which involved hundreds of men and went on for decades.

Were this Scottish couple reported to police many times and ignored? Did social workers and police downplay their abuse in order to not stir up community tension? Were the children judged to be complicit in their own rapes?

Of course not, but you will pretend these cases are the same because you'd rather score points against what you imagine is only a right wing concern than admit there was a pattern to this criminal behaviour, and an institutional facilitation, that deserves investigation.

 

[multitool]

Wow, touched a bit of a nerve there. That was quite the rant.

Actually it was just a bit of a play on the word 'foreign'.

They were Scottish.

 

[CXRAndy]

Another foreign grooming gang uncovered.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...members-jailed-for-between-eight-and-20-years

Amateurs compared to Muslim rape gangs

 

[multitool]

^ Hey Aurora, your back up has arrived