Riot!

[icowden]

I'll save everyone some time:-
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65174096

TLDR the most recent grooming / rape gangs have all been Pakistani Muslim but it's not true to say that the issue is only with Pakistani Muslims but there is insufficient recent data to support that there is a big problem with other ethnic groups / religions.

A previous piece of research from 2015 found that of 1,231 perpetrators of "group and gang-based child sexual exploitation", 42% were white, 14% were defined as Asian or Asian British and 17% black.

The problem is that the data is from only 19 out of more than 40 police forces and nearly a decade old.

 

[the snail]

Hardly a rant. You took the opportunity once again to compare apples with oranges and pretend that sexual abuse within a family is the same as a repetitive pattern of organised grooming and trafficking of children seen in a dozen towns over decades.

....

Arguably abuse within the family is even worse - it's a gross breach of trust by those who should be protecting the victims, and who have the ability for greater control of them. The number of victims abused within the family is probably much greater too. I suppose the racist trope of brown men raping white women is much more exciting for people like you and the fans of the rapist-paedophile president.

 

[multitool]

Hilariously, despite finding herself holding a growing number of views that align with actual fascists, Aurora seems unable to recognise what that actually means.

The only reason she is going on about Pakistani grooming gangs again is because a sieg heiling fascist told her to.

(your reminder that south Asians are UNDERrepresented in CSE stats, whereas whites are OVERrepresented)

 

[AuroraSaab]

Arguably abuse within the family is even worse - it's a gross breach of trust by those who should be protecting the victims, and who have the ability for greater control of them. The number of victims abused within the family is probably much greater too.

Obviously, as children spend most of their time with those they are related to, giving related offenders easier and more frequent access. That hardly diminishes the severity of non related sexual offending, nor the relevance of analysis of such offences.

I suppose the racist trope of brown men raping white women is much more exciting for people like you and the fans of the rapist-paedophile president.

You'd rather ignore what reports, whistle blowers, and victims have said, just because someone like Elon Musk points out the same thing.

Looks like the Sikhs are racists this week too.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/a...ary-to-widen-grooming-gangs-inquiry-ppq7wszfw

If we're doing the guilt by association thing and you think I side with Donald Trump - though feck knows what you think he has to do with UK grooming gangs - then look who you align with.

Both you and the actual rapists think it's all a bit racist.

 

[CXRAndy]

Government think tank wanted comments like two tier Keir to be labelled far right and categorised as NCHI. They also wanted rhetoric about Islamic attacks and 'alleged Muslim rape gangs' in the same category

Luckily the report was leaked before this government slipped it to the police

 

[AuroraSaab]

Hilariously, despite finding herself holding a growing number of views that align with actual fascists, Aurora seems unable to recognise what that actually means.

The only reason she is going on about Pakistani grooming gangs again is because a sieg heiling fascist told her to.

Yeah, literally nobody has mentioned that cultural factors might be relevant both in the offending, the choice of victims, and in how the initial reports were dealt with, before Elon Musk mentioned it....

Not Keighley Labour MP Ann Cryer 20 years ago:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/30/rotherham-girls-could-have-been-spared-ann-cryer

Not GMP police officer Maggie Oliver 14 years ago, not the Sikh community a decade ago, not other whistleblowers.

The fact that you think it was a fiction created by Musk or Tommy Robinson shows you know next to nothing about these cases nor about the many people - both victims and their advocates - who have campaigned for years to have a proper inquiry.

You only started paying attention when Musk and Robinson stuck their oars in and now here you are, pretending it must be a right wing racist endeavour simply because their names have now become attached to it.

(your reminder that south Asians are UNDERrepresented in CSE stats, whereas whites are OVERrepresented)

I thought you said before that the data was unclear?

Where are you getting those stats from? You were asked for a link before and failed to produce it.

Let's see if it's specifically street grooming group stats or general child sexual abuse stats, because these are different types of offences. You know this but seek to conflate the two.

The stuff you lads are prepared to sweep under the carpet just so you can slag off Elon Musk defies belief.

 

[Ian H]

Let's see if it's specifically street grooming group stats or general child sexual abuse stats, because these are different types of offences. You know this but seek to conflate the two.

Are you saying there's a hierarchy of child sex abuse offences, some worse than others? Is the ethnicity of the abusers a factor?

 

[AuroraSaab]

No. I'm saying that different types of sexual offences may display different patterns with regard to both offenders and victims. To lump all similar crimes together obscures these patterns and reduces attempts to make meaningful analysis. Without meaningful analysis of criminal behaviour there is no opportunity to prevent it in future or to learn from it.

If we lump all knife crime deaths together then you would include gang related killings, domestic violence murders, drunk fights, street robberies gone wrong. How can we address youth knife culture and gang culture if we hide their stats amongst other stats? How do we target the groups most at risk of being drawn into gang violence if the stats show it isn't much of a problem because its number and significance is diluted by being grouped in with every other offence with knives?

Edit: If ethnicity, or other characteristics, are a factor in specific crimes it should be analysed and addressed. How else can we target resources at specific groups? If most drug crimes involve young black and white males under 25 there is no point warning the elderly Chinese community about the dangers of being recruited as a county lines gang courier.

 

[multitool]

Yeah, literally nobody has mentioned that cultural factors might be relevant both in the offending, the choice of victims, and in how the initial reports were dealt with, before Elon Musk mentioned it....

Not Keighley Labour MP Ann Cryer 20 years ago:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/aug/30/rotherham-girls-could-have-been-spared-ann-cryer

Not GMP police officer Maggie Oliver 14 years ago, not the Sikh community a decade ago, not other whistleblowers.

The fact that you think it was a fiction created by Musk or Tommy Robinson shows you know next to nothing about these cases nor about the many people - both victims and their advocates - who have campaigned for years to have a proper inquiry.

You only started paying attention when Musk and Robinson stuck their oars in and now here you are, pretending it must be a right wing racist endeavour simply because their names have now become attached to it.



I thought you said before that the data was unclear?

Where are you getting those stats from? You were asked for a link before and failed to produce it.

Let's see if it's specifically street grooming group stats or general child sexual abuse stats, because these are different types of offences. You know this but seek to conflate the two.

The stuff you lads are prepared to sweep under the carpet just so you can slag off Elon Musk defies belief.

That is just one massive straw man.

You ARE running with this issue purely because the far right have re-promoted it.

Me pointing this out is not denying that there are crimes taking places or sweeping it under the carpet. It is pointing out that a certain section of society only seem to be concerned about offences if the perpetrators ethnicity or gender identity belongs to a group they hate.

You know this. Don't play the faux naive or claim that your very sudden interest is based on concern for the victims.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The call for a national inquiry has been going on for years. Your sudden interest arrived about the same time as Elon Musk did.

 

[multitool]

Lots of people call for lots of things.

There was an inquiry. The aim now is to have further local inquiries.

My "sudden interest", if there is one, is noting the attempt to co-opt social issues to pursue a far right agenda by fascist and their useful idiots.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Local inquiries won't cut it, for reasons already discussed. Your interest is to grab on to anything remotely tainted with the whiff of anything even vaguely right wing and use it as a stick to beat others with, regardless of what that issue is and whether there is any merit to it. And in doing so shut down further discussion on here by being as personal and obnoxious as you can about it. It works on forums I suppose but it doesn't seem to be working in the real world.

 

[matticus]

... a certain section of society only seem to be concerned about offences if the perpetrators ethnicity or gender identity belongs to a group they hate

I think you're completely right to challenge the racist sh1t-stirrers who try to make something of these gangs' ethnicity.

But is it OK for MI5 (and other gov agencies) to focus primarliy on Islamic terrorism over other types?

 

[CXRAndy]

Don't authorities direct their resources to where the biggest problems are. Since 2000 95% of all terrorism is from islamic extremist in the UK.

 

[icowden]

I think you're completely right to challenge the racist sh1t-stirrers who try to make something of these gangs' ethnicity.
But is it OK for MI5 (and other gov agencies) to focus primarliy on Islamic terrorism over other types?

Well yes. The number of people killed, trafficked, raped or kidnapped by environmental protestors as part of their environmental movement is, as far as I am aware, zero. Similarly, I'm not aware of a high count of problems caused by left wing anarchists.

Islamic terrorism is the type that results in deaths etc, followed by other militant right-wing terrorism - e.g. Southport riots. For once I think @CXRAndy has a point. It doesn't mean that all Muslims are terrorists but Islam as a religion is used as a tool for terrorism to coerce and control people. Militant branches preach that there can be no other religion and non-belief is not allowed.