Schooliform

[BoldonLad]

#115 and the post it answers offers some clues.

Ok. So it is investment and respect for teachers by “society” we need to address.

Investment is not the same thing as throwing money at a problem, in my view, so, any clues as to where a government which was so minded, might target spending, to improve outcomes?

Any clues on how we might improve “society’s” respect levels for the teaching profession?

 

[BoldonLad]

There's a tradition of wearing black/dark at a funeral, and to be smart/ clean.
No-one would mind school uniform if it was that relaxed, but it's always far more prescriptive.

And far more expensive, particularly if there is an insistence on using a particular supplier at elevated costs (in contravention of Dept of Education guidance). And if there's any truth in the rumour of school getting a cut of uniform costs... well, that's indefensible.

Not that I mind schools having a uniform policy. It just needs to be reasonable and have some flexibility.

For example, our local school insists on skirts being knee length, yet the regulation PE skorts is ridiculously brief; they subsequently permitted leggings for PE, which many girls were happier with.

Maybe schools should focus more on educating children according to their individual requirements instead of hammering all the differently shaped pegs into the same shaped holes.




[edited]

Which school is that please... asking for my friends, Andy and Russ

 

[theclaud]

It's the compulsory top hat and tails that keeps them in line.

The important thing is learning the value of smartness and instilling self-respect.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Why don't we stop pretending that it reduces the symptoms, let alone the underlying causes, of the real problems and get rid of the source of the distraction? It's papering over the cracked mirror, to introduce another mixaphor.

I am not pretending that uniforms reduce the symptoms. I am saying that the underlying causes are nothing to do with uniform or no uniform. Uniforms are not the source of any distraction, any more than no uniforms are.
This debate is about people, having chosen an ideology that suits/offends their personal beliefs/prejudices, defending/attacking it rather than researching the facts.
Meanwhile kids struggle within the education system and people argue about bloody uniforms as if that will improve things.

 

[theclaud]

and people argue about bloody uniforms as if that will improve things

 

[newfhouse]

I am not pretending that uniforms reduce the symptoms. I am saying that the underlying causes are nothing to do with uniform or no uniform. Uniforms are not the source of any distraction, any more than no uniforms are.
This debate is about people, having chosen an ideology that suits/offends their personal beliefs/prejudices, defending/attacking it rather than researching the facts.
Meanwhile kids struggle within the education system and people argue about bloody uniforms as if that will improve things.

I think we basically agree, don't we? It is mostly a distraction.

 

[Rusty Nails]

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[C R]

They think they are addressing the issue. Obviously you, random Internet guy, knows better than them.

I've highlighted the operative word. The proponents of the broken windows approach also thought that it worked.

Anyway, last time I checked you were also a random guy off the Internet.

 

[fozy tornip]

For those of us with kids we know consistency is vital.

Dad, how come you're always chuntering on about 'children are the future' and parenting is vital and respect is key and all that patrician Daily Mail editorial stuff, when rather than engage with us you'd sooner spend all your spare time at the computer in those grey Y-fronts being belligerent with strangers?
Can we have some money for drugs?

 

[icowden]

Like “rich” or “wealthy”, this clearly means different things to different people. Personally, I wouldn’t have thought “poor” people would be showing concern about inheritance tax?

Depends where they live. Or is everyone in the South East rich on your measuring tape.
There are other children at my daughters schools who have bursaries. I am not the poorest parent by any means.

 

[BoldonLad]

Depends where they live. Or is everyone in the South East rich on your measuring tape.
There are other children at my daughters schools who have bursaries. I am not the poorest parent by any means.

It’s not MY measuring tape.

Merely a request for clarity.

Presumably, not everyone in the South East lives in a £1m house?

Just as not everyone in the NE lives in a Council House.

 

[multitool]

I've highlighted the operative word. The proponents of the broken windows approach also thought that it worked.

Ah, so we are now at the stage in the discussion where any proponents of a system MUST be wrong because something completely different didn't work

Anyway, last time I checked you were also a random guy off the Internet.

Yes...but I'm a random guy who gas bothered to find out what this is all about.

Anyway...back from pub.

Rationale is thusly:

RTL system adopted in schools wishing to improve results, deal with poor behaviour, and change culture of students (and staff) to be more aspirational, rather than education being something done to them.

This is all off the back of some report commissioned by Ofsted 5 years ago, can't remember name of author.

RTL tries to remove all opportunity for arguing the toss over anything at all so that energies go in to learning and culture becomes co-operative rather than adversarial.

Uniform is part of UK school culture, so unless it is to be abandoned entirely it has to fit in with RTL systems. There is also a desire for a strong individual school identity too.

The results of this system have been remarkable when applied well, and lots of schools have been 'turned around'. Highly likely to become the predominant system in UK.

Daughter's original secondary school was indeed fûcked. Academy sponsor pushed out old head and insisted on RTL system.

So there you are, from the horses mouth.

 

[C R]

Ah, so we are now at the stage in the discussion where any proponents of a system MUST be wrong because something completely different didn't work



Yes...but I'm a random guy who gas bothered to find out what this is all about.

Anyway...back from pub.

Rationale is thusly:

RTL system adopted in schools wishing to improve results, deal with poor behaviour, and change culture of students (and staff) to be more aspirational, rather than education being something done to them.

This is all off the back of some report commissioned by Ofsted 5 years ago, can't remember name of author.

RTL tries to remove all opportunity for arguing the toss over anything at all so that energies go in to learning and culture becomes co-operative rather than adversarial.

Uniform is part of UK school culture, so unless it is to be abandoned entirely it has to fit in with RTL systems. There is also a desire for a strong individual school identity too.

The results of this system have been remarkable when applied well, and lots of schools have been 'turned around'. Highly likely to become the predominant system in UK.

Daughter's original secondary school was indeed fûcked. Academy sponsor pushed out old head and insisted on RTL system.

So there you are, from the horses mouth.

I refer the honorable member to @fozy turnip's post above.

 

[multitool]

I refer the honorable member to @fozy turnip's post above.

He's joking CR

 

[C R]

He's joking CR

You mean they're not your drug addicted sprog? Are you telling me that people pretend to be someone they're not on Internet forums? My perception of reality is shattered, I don't know if I'll survive this revelation.