Schooliform

[multitool]

Maybe we could try offering higher salaries for teachers and we might get better ones...

Possibly, but I suspect the issue isn't quite so superficial.

Class sizes of 32+, shoot working conditions, and a savage working day are possibly of more importance. Most of us can take micro breaks in the day. I'm not sure teachers get that luxury and from what I've heard lunch and morning breaks are rushed and often used for other aspects of the job.

I clocked off at 1pm today and went for a ride. Loads of people I know do this...none of them are teachers.

Just as other frontline public servants are taking the brunt of the mass impoverishment of a huge swathe of society, I would be surprised to find teachers are too, possibly reflected in student and parental behaviour.

 

[icowden]

Possibly, but I suspect the issue isn't quite so superficial.
Class sizes of 32+, shoot working conditions, and a savage working day are possibly of more importance. Most of us can take micro breaks in the day. I'm not sure teachers get that luxury and from what I've heard lunch and morning breaks are rushed and often used for other aspects of the job.

Well yes, schools need an increase in funding as well. There is a reason that almost all private schools have class sizes of 20 and not 30.

 

[multitool]

I'm all in favour of private schools paying VAT to help fund this.

 

[BoldonLad]

In primary school, our class sizes were 40+

In secondary school (a Grammar) 30.

Not sure what the class sizes were for my pals who went to “normal” secondary modern schools, as they were called then.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The starting salaries of teachers is comparable with many other similar graduate jobs these days (obviously not tech or finance). The shortening of the pay scale and the additional points system also means you no longer have to be mid thirties before your pay goes up much.

It's mostly the conditions that deter people. The drop out rate for NQT's is about 20% after 3 or 4 years. It's high in nursing too tbf. It's the behaviour of the kids, the pressure to meet targets, the work in the evenings. More teachers, smaller classes would help. The importance of support for challenging behaviour is key. It can be a great job when you're in a school where parents, kids, and teachers are all pulling together.

Class size does matter. The classes in my childhood comprehensive were 30+. And it made a poor school even worse.

 

[icowden]

I'm all in favour of private schools paying VAT to help fund this.

Yes, we know that you would prefer to disadvantage children likely to be gaining the most benefit rather than focusing on bringing state education up to par so that children don't need to seek private schooling in the first place.

 

[multitool]

Yes, we know that you would prefer to disadvantage children likely to be gaining the most benefit rather than focusing on bringing state education up to par so that children don't need to seek private schooling in the first place.

It's a luxury purchase. Should be taxed like other luxury purchases.

"Bringing State education up to par" means per pupil funding equal to private schools, and that isn't going to happen by giving private schools weird tax breaks that nobody else gets.

 

[icowden]

"Bringing State education up to par" means per pupil funding equal to private schools, and that isn't going to happen by giving private schools weird tax breaks that nobody else gets.

But you do think we should disadvantage children by disrupting their education and forcing them to go to inappropriate settings rather than properly addressing the problem.

 

[multitool]

Nobody is forced to go to private school, and enough with the straw men.

Disingenuous bollocks

 

[icowden]

Nobody is forced to go to private school, and enough with the straw men.
Disingenuous bollocks

I can tell you don't have kids.

Currently there are two types of child at my daughters school. Type A has wealthy parents. Type B usually suffers from one or more of dyslexia, anxiety, poor self image or other mental health problems, other medical problems. Type B children typically have parents who have made sacrifices to ensure that their child or children get a good education in a setting which has small class sizes and excellent medical and pastoral support. There is no place near me for Type B children in state school. Some of them tried. It made their problems worse, not better.

Not everyone sends their kids to private school because money is no object.

 

[multitool]

I have kids. Cheers.

All parents of kids at private school are wealthy.

It's fine that those wealthy parents want to buy special treatment for their kids.

Doesn't mean it shouldn't be taxed like any other discretionary luxury purchase.

 

[The Crofted Crest]

But you do think we should disadvantage children by disrupting their education and forcing them to go to inappropriate settings rather than properly addressing the problem.

Scuse my ignorance, but isn't this a stonecast reason for abolishing private schools and hanging all those in favour of them?

 

[icowden]

I have kids. Cheers.

OK - I actually care about mine.

All parents of kids at private school are wealthy.

How many times do I have to point out that that is not true? I went to private school on an assisted place precisely because my parents were not wealthy. To put my two children through private school I have remortgaged my house twice, and my wife's salary is predominantly used for school fees and associated costs. I don't live in a mansion and drive a Bentley. I am not poor, but I am also not wealthy. I can afford to do this, just about. There is no place for my children in any state school around here. To send them to state school would be to condemn them to failure, just as state school was doing when they were in primary school.

It's fine that those wealthy parents want to buy special treatment for their kids.

As I said, you don't give a shoot about kids - only yourself.

 

[icowden]

Scuse my ignorance, but isn't this a stonecast reason for abolishing private schools and hanging all those in favour of them?

How so?

If you want to get rid of private schools you make them unnecessary. Finland barely has any as it doesn't need them. If class sizes of 20 didn't give better results, private schools wouldn't have class sizes of 20.

I'm all for adding 5p onto income tax and trebling the education budget, mandating smaller class sizes, capping the number of pupils a school can have and opening more schools, but it isn't going to happen. It's a bit academic anyway as the VAT thing almost certainly isn't going to happen, and if it does it will only affect my younger daughter's final year, so at least my kids'll be out of the system before the other kids get shafted and private schools become even more elitist.

 

[Deleted member 121]

OK - I actually care about mine.

What a ridiculous thing to say...