Sooner or later, and, now it has happened

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
We now have a chance to test the theory that a large number of deaths will act as a deterrent to future crossing attempts.
 

Xipe Totec

Half man, half ant... ALL TERROR!
Maybe The Prittler has decided the best way to hang on to her job was to revert to Plan A & order the sinking of migrant boats.
 
Johnson:

“I just want to say that I’m shocked and appalled and deeply saddened by the loss of life that we have seen in the Channel. I think that the details are still coming in, but more than 20 people have lost their lives, as you know. My thoughts and sympathies are, first of all, with the victims and their families. It’s an appalling thing that they have suffered.….”


He didn’t give much of a fcuk about them when they were alive did he?
 
No, we can now test the theory it's Boris's fault.

This government, that's the one led by Boris, is acting like King Canute only they actually think the can turn the tide.

Opening safe routes for minors and allowing families etc to be reunited would reduce demand for smuggler's services to a level where the French might have a snowball's chance of managing the problem.
 

theclaud

Über Member
No, we can now test the theory it's Boris's fault.
Not just Johnson's fault. Also Patel's, May's, Blunkett's, Straw's, your man Enoch's, yours... to name just a few.
 

winjim

Welcome yourself into the new modern crisis
No, we can now test the theory it's Boris's fault.
I'm not sure what you mean by that.

As ghoulish as it sounds, I was making at least a semi-serious suggestion. I posted before about the alleged deterrent effect of a large number of Channel crossing deaths and the difficulties both logistically and ethically of attempting to quantify it. Well now's our chance. If Channel crossing attempts decrease then the deterrent effect may be real. If they remain at the current level or increase then there has been no deterrent effect from this incident. If this is the case then we should provide safe passage to these people, at least some of them, since we know that even the very real possibility of death by drowning will not prevent them from attempting the journey.

BTW, I find the 'sooner or later' nature of the thread title somewhat troubling. It does a disservice to the six people who have already lost their lives attempting the crossing this year, and to all those who came before.
 
Migrants are a masterclass in whipping-up public fervour for your own advantage with something you cannot control.
The Tories have skewered themselves over migrants, or to use a phrase Boris might understand ‘hoisted themselves by their own petard’.
This IS a Canute situation. Migration to Europe as in N. America will only increase. Like Covid it’s something we have to learn to live with.

The only humane response is to care for and process quickly those that arrive on these shores. Those that can remain should be allowed to work, Those deemed otherwise removed quickly and to a safe country….if such a thing can be found of course. We’ve burned a lot of bridges with our friendly neighbours of late….
 

Rusty Nails

Upright Member
Migrants are a masterclass in whipping-up public fervour for your own advantage with something you cannot control.
The Tories have skewered themselves over migrants, or to use a phrase Boris might understand ‘hoisted themselves by their own petard’.
This IS a Canute situation. Migration to Europe as in N. America will only increase. Like Covid it’s something we have to learn to live with.

The only humane response is to care for and process quickly those that arrive on these shores. Those that can remain should be allowed to work, Those deemed otherwise removed quickly and to a safe country….if such a thing can be found of course. We’ve burned a lot of bridges with our friendly neighbours of late….
I agree totally with the sentiments in that last paragraph, but have some doubts about whether the closest of our neighbours, from where most of these poor people set off on their perilous journey, is really acting as a friendly neighbour in this instance. I know it is the traffickers who are directly responsible but I am not convinced that the French authorities are doing their best to stop it, especially since Brexit. When even the BBC can film trafficked migrants setting off from France it is difficult to believe the French authorities could not do better. Neither government comes out of this well wrt to caring for the welfare of migrants.
 

stowie

Active Member
Not just Johnson's fault. Also Patel's, May's, Blunkett's, Straw's, your man Enoch's, yours... to name just a few.

There needs to be no mistake about this. Government policy relating to asylum - especially the rule that asylum can only be claimed once inside the UK - provides the environment which allows this type of people smuggling to flourish. In capitalist terms, the market is created by the legislation and the criminals service the demand. People smuggling, like drugs, weapons and sex trafficking are very lucrative for the very worst criminals - people we really don't want to allow to flourish. People linked with international organised crime, murder, kidnapping and terrorism. The solution would be to close down the market with changes in legislation as suggested above. Anything else - as the war on drugs has demonstrated again and again - is merely suppressing at absolute best case and usually just making things worse.

But above all this, these are people. People who lost their lives in a horrible tragedy. People who drowned off our shore. Not migrants. Not asylum seekers. People. Just once, I would like them referred as such in the media. There are no easy solutions, and most that would work and be humane are politically difficult at best - I know this. But I would just like it remembered who is most affected. The people who lose their lives and their families, most of whom will never get their voices heard.
 
I agree totally with the sentiments in that last paragraph, but have some doubts about whether the closest of our neighbours, from where most of these poor people set off on their perilous journey, is really acting as a friendly neighbour in this instance. I know it is the traffickers who are directly responsible but I am not convinced that the French authorities are doing their best to stop it, especially since Brexit. When even the BBC can film trafficked migrants setting off from France it is difficult to believe the French authorities could not do better. Neither government comes out of this well wrt to caring for the welfare of migrants.
The friendly bit was tongue in cheek, I should have put it in quotations.
It’s not in the Frenchies interest to stop them. The fact that it pisses-of les rosbifs is an extra incentive for them to do bugger all.
If only we were part of some pan-european organisation that might work together….
 
There needs to be no mistake about this. Government policy relating to asylum - especially the rule that asylum can only be claimed once inside the UK - provides the environment which allows this type of people smuggling to flourish. In capitalist terms, the market is created by the legislation and the criminals service the demand. People smuggling, like drugs, weapons and sex trafficking are very lucrative for the very worst criminals - people we really don't want to allow to flourish. People linked with international organised crime, murder, kidnapping and terrorism. The solution would be to close down the market with changes in legislation as suggested above. Anything else - as the war on drugs has demonstrated again and again - is merely suppressing at absolute best case and usually just making things worse.

But above all this, these are people. People who lost their lives in a horrible tragedy. People who drowned off our shore. Not migrants. Not asylum seekers. People. Just once, I would like them referred as such in the media. There are no easy solutions, and most that would work and be humane are politically difficult at best - I know this. But I would just like it remembered who is most affected. The people who lose their lives and their families, most of whom will never get their voices heard.
POTD.
 
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