Spin Time

[Psamathe]

I've not seen the news yet but have Labour come out with their standard line "Going further & Faster". Seems their answer to anything and everything like the solution to any and all our problems is "Further and faster".

Ian

 

[BoldonLad]

I suspect not.
Clearly the last GE was a major protest against the ruination of the country by the Cons. But sadly Labour has done nothing in Govt. that has convinced the 'average voter' that anything has changed from Tory austerity. The talk is still of cuts in public services and support for the poorest, the rich are getting richer, more people are visiting the food-banks and more forriners are arriving.
There is no 'hope' or positive vision whether real or imagined for most people now. Labour are failing them. Reform and the far-right are perfectly poised to lie their way to ever greater influence and we'll all suffer as a result.
It's like we're in-step with the USA but 5 years behind.

One thing we share in real time with the USA is that we both need to change to a more representative voting system....

With a possible variation on the number 5 (in range 5-20) isn't that said to be situation normal? Note, I not saying it IS situation normal, merely that is a widely held belief.

 

[BoldonLad]

They've got a massive majority and should be doing what they think is necessary rather than constantly worrying whether their decisions will lose them an election that is still up to 4 years away. The really stupid thing is that they are still upsetting the people they are trying to keep on side whilst not making the progress they need to in order to fix the complete mess they were left with by the previous lot (and what those who moved to them / ditched the Tories in droves voted for). Alienating those that voted for you to avoiid upsetting those that didn't / won't seems a strange strategy.

There are areas (like the one I live in) which were solid Labour before and throughout the last 14 years. However, it would appear that Reform have Labour on the ropes locally. Conservative voters were/are a relatively rare species here, Reform are winning over former Labour voters, in significant numbers (as can be seen from the North Tyneside Mayor results, Reform have come from 0 to a very close second place), this has not been achieved by "picking up" disillusioned Conservative voters.

 

[icowden]

, Reform have come from 0 to a very close second place), this has not been achieved by "picking up" disillusioned Conservative voters.

No it has come from picking up those, and the more xenophobic labour supporters.

 

[Beebo]

There are areas (like the one I live in) which were solid Labour before and throughout the last 14 years. However, it would appear that Reform have Labour on the ropes locally. Conservative voters were/are a relatively rare species here, Reform are winning over former Labour voters, in significant numbers (as can be seen from the North Tyneside Mayor results, Reform have come from 0 to a very close second place), this has not been achieved by "picking up" disillusioned Conservative voters.

Ask them how Reform will make their life better?
Where is the tax money coming from to fund these imaginary improvements?
I doubt many Reform voters would be happy paying thousands in NHS insurance premiums.
It’s a sad old world when people are voting Reform just to piss off immigrants

 

[BoldonLad]

No it has come from picking up those, and the more xenophobic labour supporters.

This is Gordon Brown land, calling them names, because you don't like their views (I don't like xenophobia, or bigotry, either) will not entice them to vote for you.

But, it is perfectly valid approach if it is principles over results which counts.

 

[BoldonLad]

Ask them how Reform will make their life better?
Where is the tax money coming from to fund these imaginary improvements?
I doubt many Reform voters would be happy paying thousands in NHS insurance premiums.
It’s a sad old world when people are voting Reform just to piss off immigrants

I agree 100%, but, I am not a Reform voter, It is not me you need to convince.

1. Interestingly, the "NHS Insurance premiums" is regularly trotted out by Labour supporters trying to undermine the Reform ascent. In an area where getting a Doctors appointment can take weeks, NHS dentists are barely available, waiting lists for hospital treatment are months, this is not a very convincing line to take.

2. I would not be so certain that "pissing off immigrants" is the only, or, indeed even the primary motivation, for ditching Labour.

 

[Pross]

It's just following the whole MAGA thing. People are fed up with the mainstream politicians, life has been a bit shite financially for 15 years or so so they really want to believe the upstarts coming in and criticising traditional politics and promising all sorts of changes to the status quo. The upsurge in social media with no fact checking plays a part along with a lack of critical thinking. For some reason people want to believe because it is what they want to be told, they don't look at these multi-millionaires and question why they claim to speak for the 'working folk' or who really benefits from the policies.

It's good to learn from your mistakes but better still to learn by the mistakes of others. Hopefully before the next General Election people will have seen the full impact of the MAGA crowd in the US and realise the promises are just to get these politicians more power and wealth for them and their mates.

 

[Pblakeney]

Re proportional representation, or similar. It is simply not going to happen while the government in charge has a majority due to the current system. Turkeys don't (usually) vote for Christmas. The push for PR will have to come during a coalition government.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The supposedly impartial BBC being sexist and condescending about a former MP and government minister.

 

[Beebo]

It's just following the whole MAGA thing. People are fed up with the mainstream politicians, life has been a bit shite financially for 15 years or so so they really want to believe the upstarts coming in and criticising traditional politics and promising all sorts of changes to the status quo. The upsurge in social media with no fact checking plays a part along with a lack of critical thinking. For some reason people want to believe because it is what they want to be told, they don't look at these multi-millionaires and question why they claim to speak for the 'working folk' or who really benefits from the policies.

It's good to learn from your mistakes but better still to learn by the mistakes of others. Hopefully before the next General Election people will have seen the full impact of the MAGA crowd in the US and realise the promises are just to get these politicians more power and wealth for them and their mates.

I agree with your comments. I’m still staggered that voters don’t actually understand what they are voting for.

But then again 50% of the population have below average intelligence, which means it’s easy for Reform to pick off the easily swayed.

 

[CXRAndy]

I agree with your comments. I’m still staggered that voters don’t actually understand what they are voting for.

But then again 50% of the population have below average intelligence, which means it’s easy for Reform to pick off the easily swayed.

You see what that condescending attitude gets you is what you see today.

Decades of political dogma, nothing achieved, literally looks down on the public.

 

[Beebo]

The supposedly impartial BBC being sexist and condescending about a former MP and government minister.

View attachment 8147

It’s too embarrassing to say she’s an Ex Tory minister who has been promoted way beyond her ability. Given a peerage by the Conservatives, then swiftly abandoned ship to join Reform.

But I agree, it isn’t a great comment.

 

[AuroraSaab]

Might well be true but it's disappointing the BBC think that's an appropriate comment. Then they wonder why people question their impartiality and competence.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

But then again 50% of the population have below average intelligence, which means it’s easy for Reform to pick off the easily swayed.

Whatever can we do about that? I'm sure I remember David Blunkett as education secretary saying too many kids were achieving below average and he was going to sort it out. Did he fail?