Spin Time

[All uphill]

Years of piss-poor governance, culminating in Brexit, Johnson and Truss have guaranteed that we will have to become poorer.

An aging population with its demands on the NHS and social care, and the pension triple lock, eat up lots of the limited resources.

What politician would dare be honest about these things? Are we ready to hear the truth, or do we prefer lies?

 

[Stevo 666]

I don't disagree with the 2nd & 3rd paragraphs, but if 'Blue Labour' are just going to go down the route of chasing Reform policies, then we'll end up with three parties swerving off to the Reform territory, which mainly benefit Reform, as we've just witnessed.

As Monkers says, you are probably oversimplified things but if all main parties are swerving off into Reform territory as you say, maybe it indicates that is what a significant portion of the electorate want?

 

[Ian H]

He was still a disaster in electoral terms - for Labour, if not for the country.

I think we can disagree on that one.

 

[briantrumpet]

As Monkers says, you are probably oversimplified things but if all main parties are swerving off into Reform territory as you say, maybe it indicates that is what a significant portion of the electorate want?

Don't disagree that a significant proportion of the electorate currently seem to think that the populists can deliver unicorns (free next-day delivery). It's probably fortunate that Trump is putting that into practice four years before our next elections on the national scale, so that we can witness the ensuing catastrophe.

Sadly, it's good news for Reform that Labour are just playing catch-up, rather than looking to Canada and Australia to prove that you don't need to pander to unicornery to get elected.

 

[bobzmyunkle]

Don't disagree that a significant proportion of the electorate currently seem to think that the populists can deliver unicorns (free next-day delivery)

The returns policy's a bit crap though.

 

[Stevo 666]

I think we can disagree on that one.

Do you disagree that McConnell was a failure in electoral terms? Played 2, lost 2 as I recall.

 

[Stevo 666]

Don't disagree that a significant proportion of the electorate currently seem to think that the populists can deliver unicorns (free next-day delivery). It's probably fortunate that Trump is putting that into practice four years before our next elections on the national scale, so that we can witness the ensuing catastrophe.

Sadly, it's good news for Reform that Labour are just playing catch-up, rather than looking to Canada and Australia to prove that you don't need to pander to unicornery to get elected.

I think it's also oversimplification to think that what Trump is doing would be replicated anywhere else just because parties in other countries are the right of the political spectrum. That is a pretty unique situation in the USA.

In any event, voters here have plenty of exposure to Trump recently and it hardly put them off voting Reform, did it?

 

[Pblakeney]

What politician would dare be honest about these things? Are we ready to hear the truth, or do we prefer lies?

None. Lies.

The country was/is broken. Fixing it (if at all possible) will be time consuming and very, very expensive. I very much doubt the hits have stopped coming.

People appear to want others to pay for the fixing. I suspect everyone will be paying.

 

[monkers]

Years of piss-poor governance, culminating in Brexit, Johnson and Truss have guaranteed that we will have to become poorer.

An aging population with its demands on the NHS and social care, and the pension triple lock, eat up lots of the limited resources.

What politician would dare be honest about these things? Are we ready to hear the truth, or do we prefer lies?

All of these things are rooted in the billionaires, avoiding paying tax, taking money from our circulatory system to stash it offshore, creating sock puppets of successive governments, shaping policy through the think tanks they fund and lobbyists they pay, and ownership of the media that shapes public thinking.

The workforce of the UK, whatever is said about them in the media, work hard enough to generate a huge amount of money. The distribution of that money is not equitable. Fix that, and the solutions to the problems can follow.

 

[Stevo 666]

All of these things are rooted in the billionaires, avoiding paying tax, taking money from our circulatory system to stash it offshore, creating sock puppets of successive governments, shaping policy through the think tanks they fund and lobbyists they pay, and ownership of the media that shapes public thinking.

Do you have any evidence to support that view?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

The data doesn't support that theory.

The Tory Party has been sliding right because their support base is sliding right. The Tories have upset their membership base on a number of issues - COVID, lockdowns, getting publicly caught over VIP lanes, care home deaths, disgraced MPs, Downing Street parties, Dominic Cummings taking the p1ss, Truss damaging the investments and pensions.

The number of Tory losses almost exactly matches Reform gains. Tory voters are telling their leadership, they are dissatisfied. Even if Badenoch takes the party even further to the right, it's probably too late. Doing dodgy stuff does not disgruntle the average Tory voter, but getting caught multiple times doing it is a very big no no.

Actually i think it's not so much a brititsh issue as it is an political issue in general, most of the scandals whether you talk about lockdown parties/outings, politicians putting personal interest and rich friends first and the country's interest in a bucket kicked don the line, or disgraces mp's if you lookat the rest of europe you generally see the same happening.
Even the core issues are the same, housing prices that keep on going up whilst wages don't go up at the same rate, increase in criminality for a number of reasons, not adressing key issues being the main one.

And then parties like reform shows a different picture whether it's true, archievable or not doesn't really matter poeple feel already like they are being lied too, can we really blame them?

 

[monkers]

Do you have any evidence to support that view?

That would take a very long essay indeed. See Gary Stevenson. See also UK land ownership. While people may squabble over arguments that a country is the land it occupies, or the people within it, billionaires want control of both of those plus the money. Like Trump they want to live as kings.

Transactions were once made through a bartering system. Later tokens were added to provide a method of fairer trading. You can have my pig for two lambs and ten tokens etc. Money has been weaponised for social control, not just through tax. While slavery is abolished, servitude is not. In this modern age, consumers have become one commodity, money has become the other. The price of land means it is a commodity only available to the wealthy. We are returning to medieval feudal and baronial times.

We can look at the attitudes of Conservatives, Labour, and Reform - none seek to change the model. Farage has just added a third option as a faster track to what the Tories and Labour offer. It is not resistance to either of them.

While Farage might be proven as gifted as a world class confidence trickster, there is no evidence that he has the skill to make the UK as successful country, or that he will fulfill his promise to improve the lives of ordinary people.

 

[monkers]

Actually i think it's not so much a brititsh issue as it is an political issue in general, most of the scandals whether you talk about lockdown parties/outings, politicians putting personal interest and rich friends first and the country's interest in a bucket kicked don the line, or disgraces mp's if you lookat the rest of europe you generally see the same happening.
Even the core issues are the same, housing prices that keep on going up whilst wages don't go up at the same rate, increase in criminality for a number of reasons, not adressing key issues being the main one.

And then parties like reform shows a different picture whether it's true, archievable or not doesn't really matter poeple feel already like they are being lied too, can we really blame them?

I think it is a British issue because the replies to the thread are in the context of British events, British political parties, British politicians, and entrenched British cultural attitudes.

That's not to deny that similar issues arise in other countries. They invariably do.

 

[monkers]

None. Lies.

To be fair, you couldn't level that criticism at quite all of them. I'm thinking of Caroline Lucas , or now Carla Denyer, or Sian Berry of the Greens. I'm not even sure that is true of completely true of Caroline Nokes, even though she's a Tory.

Addendum: how could I have forgotten Zara Sultana or former MP Mhairi Black.

 

[Psamathe]

.

They are making a start already
Dame Andre Jenkyn’s (not sure about the spelling) will sack all the DEI staff immediately

which as 2 problems
a) they have a contract - so will need to be made redundant - which costs money

b) there aren't any - which does at least reduce the redundancy payments costs

doesn;t show much in the way of research done for the role

One thing I expect is that Reform won't be able to slip things through without people noticing. Press will be all over everything they do everywhere. Anything with the slightest negative connotations will be headline news. So the electorate (or those that even try to be aware) will be fully aware of all the bad stuff.

Ian