Starmer's vision quest

[multitool]

I admire you're optimism on basically what is a promise of feck all....if it looks like austerity and sounds like austerity ?
"Rachel Reeves says she wants to learn from George Osborne & that she will ask every government department to come up with plans for economic cuts to what she calls ‘waste’....

Learning from ≠ emulating.

Why wouldn't somebody pick Osborne's brains. Behind closed doors he is probably pretty candid about what he did wrong.

You should try reading some political memoirs from governing politicians you despise. You'll be surprised what they are able to say once freed from the yoke of office, and the constraints of party membership.

 

[multitool]

You don't say.

Then don't put up a post saying:

"I DONT KNOW WHAT ANY OF IT MEANS".

 

[Deleted member 49]

Why wouldn't somebody pick Osborne's brains. Behind closed doors he is probably pretty candid about what he did wrong.

Yea because he's always seemed so full of remorse.

You should try reading some political memoirs from governing politicians you despise. You'll be surprised what they are sble to say once freed from the yoke of office, and the constraints of party membership.

Let just get past watching the Giro and I might ask a lend of your Sir Tony biography....if there's anything left of it that is 🙄

 

[Xipe Totec]

The thing about political messaging is that it is directed. And this one is not meant for you.

Value, respect, service, stability, security.

Change, hope.

It's aimed squarely at disaffected Tories.

This is the thing. So help me to understand why they think anyone else would vote for them. For example, those who'd like to see left-leaning progressive socialist policies, not some other Tories on PCP.

Are there reasons apart from 'anyone but the Tories' and 'Keith's lied about everything so far so he's obviously lying about this too'? I already know about those.

 

[multitool]

Yea because he's always seemed so full of remorse.

Did you miss the bit where I said "behind closed doors"?

Again, try reading some memoirs from Tories of the Thatcher years. It's fascinating to find out what they really intended with policies, the constraints they had, and when they describe how and when they didn't work and why.

Let just get past watching the Giro and I might ask a lend of your Sir Tony biography....if there's anything left of it that is 🙄

Not read it. But if I had time, I would. You've got a bizarre closed-minded attitude to learning, Adam, almost as if you think reading Mein Kampf means you are a Nazi, rather than just wanting to know what the guy's thought processes were.

 

[winjim]

Then don't put up a post saying:

"I DONT KNOW WHAT ANY OF IT MEANS".

fark it I'm out.

 

[multitool]

This is the thing. So help me to understand why they think anyone else would vote for them. For example, those who'd like to see left-leaning progressive socialist policies, not some other Tories on PCP.

Are there reasons apart from 'anyone but the Tories' and 'Keith's lied about everything so far so he's obviously lying about this too'? I already know about those.

You'd have to ask them, not me, but you would get no more of a straight answer from them as you would from the SNP if you asked them about the financial realities of independence. You'd probably get the truth in about 25 years time.

It's clear that they, like Blair, calculated that they have to take the centre ground, because that is where the bulk of the votes are, and leftist votes are so few in number that they can be sacrificed.

 

[multitool]

fark it I'm out.

Cool. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[C R]

Protect our or his way of life ? Although the thought of Tony Blair 'on steroids' even scares me.
View attachment 3846

 

[Deleted member 49]

. You've got a bizarre closed-minded attitude to learning, Adam, almost as if you think reading Mein Kampf means you are a Nazi, rather than just wanting to know what the guy's thought processes were.

Feck off with you're "read some Tory memoirs" .....Your gonna have me feeling sorry for them.Then I would be banished to the spare room by my better half.
Whats Mein Kampf anyway....thought I'd read all Vonnegut's books.

 

[multitool]

Feck off with you're "read some Tory memoirs" .....Your gonna have me feeling sorry for them.Then I would be banished to the spare room by my better half.
Whats Mein Kampf anyway....thought I'd read all Vonnegut's books.

Joking apart, I would never say I feel sorry for any politician, but I am very interested in what they say decades later when they've got nothing to lose. Not all of them do this, and not all are worth listening to. People like Nigel Lawson was a cünt till the day he died, but people like Heseltine are always worth a listen, even if you disagree with them.

The one consistent thing people who have been in power say, is how limited their choices actually are, in that any change they make always has negative consequences, sometimes unforeseen, for someone else.

Politicians have to tell people what they want to hear, to some extent, which is why they will always be seen as duplicitous. Starmer will not be any different. But, as is usual, we will not see his manifesto commitments for at least another 18 months.

 

[Xipe Totec]

You'd have to ask them, not me, but you would get no more of a straight answer from them as you would from the SNP if you asked them about the financial realities of independence. You'd probably get the truth in about 25 years time.

It's clear that they, like Blair, calculated that they have to take the centre ground, because that is where the bulk of the votes are, and leftist votes are so few in number that they can be sacrificed.

You keep talking about 'the centre ground' as though that's what Labour are offering! Leaving aside your SNP strawman comment, it's interesting that you (and obviously Starmer's 'Labour') assume the majority of the UK's voters, irrespective of geography, age, social grouping or any other demographic, favour nasty, authoritarian right-wing policies & Continuation Toryism.

Based on previous elections & basic sums, a significant majority of voters don't tend to vote for right-wing parties. Hence the curious situation of an electoral system granting an 80-seat majority to a party with 42% of the popular vote back in 2019.

And yes - obviously you're going to say that's why Labour needs to tempt the type of Tories who'd sooner have rusty nails hammered into their eyeballs than ever vote Labour. However I'm not sure I'd be confident how successful that will be. Or whether it's worth what you'd end up with if it was.

 

[multitool]

You keep talking about 'the centre ground' as though that's what Labour are offering! Leaving aside your SNP
strawman comment,

It would only be a strawman comment if I was suggesting you'd put forward an argument which you hadn't, which I then preceeded to argue against.

it's interesting that you (and obviously Starmer's 'Labour') assume the majority of the UK's voters, irrespective of geography, age, social grouping or any other demographic, favour nasty, authoritarian right-wing policies & Continuation Toryism.

Based on previous elections & basic sums, a significant majority of voters don't tend to vote for right-wing parties. Hence the curious situation of an electoral system granting an 80-seat majority to a party with 42% of the popular vote back in 2019.

And yes - obviously you're going to say that's why Labour needs to tempt the type of Tories who'd sooner have rusty nails hammered into their eyeballs than ever vote Labour. However I'm not sure I'd be confident how successful that will be. Or whether it's worth what you'd end up with if it was.

I don't think Starmer's Labour are offering Sunak's hard-right Toryism, because if they were we wouldnt be seeing the repeated attacks on Tory policy, would we. I think Starmer's Labour have learnt a few things from Corbyn's catastrophic mistakes. They know the 'they go low, we stay high' mantra doesn't work, and therefore they have to aim low blows at Sunak, some of which imply an authoritarianism that isn't matched by stated political intention.

I think there is a deliberate, and an accidental ambiguity about Labour currently. Accidental in that the headless chickens, like Adam*, are reading what they want to read into Starmer's very anodyne policy statements (anodyne in so far as there aren't any yet, for reasons which I'm getting bored of having to state) and deliberate in that, yes, they are making the noises that won't alienate large chunks of the electorate (ie anti-police, anti-monarchy, pro-protest etc). The truth is Starmer will not say the things that the Corbynites want him to say, and they are getting jolly batey about it.

I think there is also a realisation that Labour will be setting themselves up for failure if they make promises they cannot deliver when elected. The national debt is frankly frightening given that the UK's credit rating has dropped, which means that that money will cost more to borrow. Labour will have to make a few key priorities, and the rest of it will have to wait. My guess would be a focus on health, and I don't think we will see much else. Why? Because we have an ageing electorate.

*sorry, love U hun x

 

[newfhouse]

because if they were we wouldnt be seeing the repeated attacks on Tory policy, would we.

We’re not seeing that though. What we get is Labour saying they would do pretty much what the Cons are doing, but do it better, faster, deeper. They’re not attacking the policies so much as the competence of their implementation.

I will have moved house by the time of the next general election. If I was staying in this constituency I would likely vote LD as the best chance to get rid of the oleaginous Chris Philp. Where I’m going is an even safer Con seat (65% of the vote); I’m pretty sure that I’ll be voting with my conscience, Green, with no hope of making any difference.

 

[Rusty Nails]

You keep talking about 'the centre ground' as though that's what Labour are offering! Leaving aside your SNP strawman comment, it's interesting that you (and obviously Starmer's 'Labour') assume the majority of the UK's voters, irrespective of geography, age, social grouping or any other demographic, favour nasty, authoritarian right-wing policies & Continuation Toryism.

Based on previous elections & basic sums, a significant majority of voters don't tend to vote for right-wing parties. Hence the curious situation of an electoral system granting an 80-seat majority to a party with 42% of the popular vote back in 2019.

And yes - obviously you're going to say that's why Labour needs to tempt the type of Tories who'd sooner have rusty nails hammered into their eyeballs than ever vote Labour. However I'm not sure I'd be confident how successful that will be. Or whether it's worth what you'd end up with if it was.

Keep me out of it. I don’t believe in violence, not even to Tory voters.