Starmer's vision quest

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D

Deleted member 49

Guest
If there is a last chance to improve his performance as Labour Leader this is it. He has had reasonable success so far from not being Corbyn and now from not being Johnson, but I don't think that is going to be enough to win the next election and he could even find that most of the disillusioned votes drifting away from the Tories could be going to the LDs. I fear that Scotland is already a lost cause for Labour.

He has to show a lot more courage to take the fight to the Tories, stop worrying about his image of being Mr Calm and Reasonable and realise that this could be a tipping point for future electoral success. If he cannot then he must make way for someone with the courage of their convictions.
Lol....that's what we've come to with Labour ! Voting for them because there not the Tories...apathy won 🙄
I can't fecking stand the bloke to be honest....could I hold my nose and vote Labour under him ? Nah don't think so,for what ? I think he'd rather have a coalition with the Lib Dems than his voters on the left.
When the Tories change their leader and they will, who do you think all these stay at home Tories will vote for ?
We've more chance of change coming through other sources such as the Unions rather than this.
The irony of a thread with Starmer and Vision lol
 

Xipe Totec

Something nasty in the woodshed
I fear that Scotland is already a lost cause for Labour.

Scotland has been a lost cause for Labour for at least the last eight years, and probably a lot longer. Corbyn - an actual socialist - might have been able to make up a little ground over time, but Starmer - a faceless, Tory-chasing, principle-free little London Sir in a suit has nothing whatsoever to offer here. Apart from the usual disdain and ignorance Westminster careerist politicans have for Scotland and its people.

And remember - he has been repeatedly crystal clear that he will happily inflict another Tory government on the entire UK before he would consider any form of dialogue with the MPs that Scotland does elect.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
Lol....that's what we've come to with Labour ! Voting for them because there not the Tories...apathy won 🙄
I can't fecking stand the bloke to be honest....could I hold my nose and vote Labour under him ? Nah don't think so,for what ? I think he'd rather have a coalition with the Lib Dems than his voters on the left.
When the Tories change their leader and they will, who do you think all these stay at home Tories will vote for ?
We've more chance of change coming through other sources such as the Unions rather than this.
The irony of a thread with Starmer and Vision lol

You're doing a lot of lolling about these days.

In a way Labour are in the same situation as the Tories in that there is no other candidate for leader who really stands out at present. At the last leadership election there was no credible alternative and having any of the losers then stand again will not give voters any more confidence in Labour. There is a potential leader who would get good public support, but he is not an MP and doesn't seem too keen to return.

In any election many voters will often vote against a party to stop them gaining power, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that tactic, except for those too pure of principle, or too intransigent, to compromise. Cutting off their nose to spite their face comes to mind. I doubt that any Labour leader who was serious about getting their party into power again would be too worried about potential votes from outliers on the right or the left.

To think of real change coming through the unions is pie in the sky stuff, fuelled by the current strong performance of the RMT. Union membership, despite a very small rise in recent years, is half what it was in the 1970s and less than a third of employees are now union members. This fall in membership is a great pity as it does lead to greater pay inequality, but it is a fact of life and weakens the ability of unions to effect change other than pay and conditions of their members.
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
Scotland has been a lost cause for Labour for at least the last eight years, and probably a lot longer. Corbyn - an actual socialist - might have been able to make up a little ground over time, but Starmer - a faceless, Tory-chasing, principle-free little London Sir in a suit has nothing whatsoever to offer here. Apart from the usual disdain and ignorance Westminster careerist politicans have for Scotland and its people.

And remember - he has been repeatedly crystal clear that he will happily inflict another Tory government on the entire UK before he would consider any form of dialogue with the MPs that Scotland does elect.

So you agree with me, just in more words.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
You're doing a lot of lolling about these days.

In a way Labour are in the same situation as the Tories in that there is no other candidate for leader who really stands out at present. At the last leadership election there was no credible alternative and having any of the losers then stand again will not give voters any more confidence in Labour. There is a potential leader who would get good public support, but he is not an MP and doesn't seem too keen to return.

In any election many voters will often vote against a party to stop them gaining power, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that tactic, except for those too pure of principle, or too intransigent, to compromise. Cutting off their nose to spite their face comes to mind. I doubt that any Labour leader who was serious about getting their party into power again would be too worried about potential votes from outliers on the right or the left.

To think of real change coming through the unions is pie in the sky stuff, fuelled by the current strong performance of the RMT. Union membership, despite a very small rise in recent years, is half what it was in the 1970s and less than a third of employees are now union members. This fall in membership is a great pity as it does lead to greater pay inequality, but it is a fact of life and weakens the ability of unions to effect change other than pay and conditions of their members.
Labour supposedly come from the left...so stop rattling on with silly "pure of principles" etc.It might seem odd to you but some of us want change.
It's not Starmer himself I really have the problem with,he could of done what he said and carried on with a popular manifesto/ideas and tried to unite the party....but no he'd prefer a coalition with libdems than traditional Labour voters on the left,which should tell you something ? His own leadership campaign was built on lies,which obviously doesn't bother you,but does me.Is that what pure of principles is ?
You casually dismiss the Unions and change as pie in the sky....you tell me who else is fighting the corner of the workers/lower paid of the country.Because it sure isn't Starmer !
 
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Rusty Nails

Country Member
Labour supposedly come from the left...so stop rattling on with silly "pure of principles" etc.It might seem odd to you but some of us want change.
It's not Starmer himself I really have the problem with,he could of done what he said and carried on with a popular manifesto/ideas and tried to unite the party....but no he'd prefer a coalition with libdems than traditional Labour voters on the left,which should tell you something ? His own leadership campaign was built on lies,which obviously doesn't bother you,but does me.Is that what pure of principles is ?
You casually dismiss the Unions and change as pie in the sky....you tell me who else is fighting the corner of the workers/lower paid of the country.Because it sure isn't Starmer !

It takes compromise to form a coalition and in recent times the best the Labour Party could achieve has been an uneasy truce rather than a coalition within the party, and the blame for that does not just rest on the current leader. I am not going to defend Starmer because he has been a huge disappointment and he has wasted an opportunity to unite the party after the internecine war under the previous leader when there wasn't exactly a coalition.
I don't casually dismiss the unions as a catalyst for change but recognise the reality that the strength of the unions has weakened in recent history and with it their ability to bring about that change.
 
D

Deleted member 49

Guest
Not wrong about any of that, is he? How is it an example of being thick?
As a general rule I usually try not to party with people working for corrupt organisations but I suppose the more the merrier ?
 

FishFright

Well-Known Member
I can't wait until he decides to let on what those Brexit opportunities he's being so coy about listing.
 
As a general rule I usually try not to party with people working for corrupt organisations but I suppose the more the merrier ?

Doesn't that limit your social circle? Some Tories are either groomed from childhood or misguided rather than evil.
 
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