Starmer's vision quest

[mudsticks]

FWIW I agree with the first but I'm not at all confident about the second.

I'd totally understand why Scotland might wish for independence, esp after being hoodwinked the first time over not brexitting.

But I suspect many English who now live there wouldn't vote for it.

Would Scottish born but now non resident get a say,??

Plus a hard EU / non EU border between England and Scotland, if they were to rejoin, how would that actually work.??

 

[Deleted member 49]

There's no hard border in Ireland and that seemed to work ok until now....don't expect Labour to get behind this either.

View: https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1536972616132591616?t=xiWl4Q4cSy7baZLfs--Z1Q&s=19

 

[mudsticks]

There's no hard border in Ireland and that seemed to work ok until now....don't expect Labour to get behind this either.

View: https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1536972616132591616?t=xiWl4Q4cSy7baZLfs--Z1Q&s=19

Yes it worked before it was EU / non EU either side .
But as we see that's no longer working 🤔

 

[Deleted member 49]

Yes it worked before it was EU / non EU either side .
But as we see that's no longer working 🤔

I'm not sure the Irish see it like that though....maybe a few dinosaurs/unionists do ?

 

[Xipe Totec]

There's no hard border in Ireland and that seemed to work ok until now....don't expect Labour to get behind this either.

View: https://twitter.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1536972616132591616?t=xiWl4Q4cSy7baZLfs--Z1Q&s=19

Labour don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of forming a government unless they are willing to do a deal with a party who have enough seats to help them over the line. Starmer says he will not do a deal under any circumstances whatsoever with the SNP.

Him being the honest man that he is, who has never reneged on a single promise, or stabbed a single former colleague (who helped him become leader) in the back, obviously he'll have no need for those 50+ SNP seats if he wants to become PM. Will he?

I'd totally understand why Scotland might wish for independence, esp after being hoodwinked the first time over not brexitting.

But I suspect many English who now live there wouldn't vote for it.

Would Scottish born but now non resident get a say,??

Plus a hard EU / non EU border between England and Scotland, if they were to rejoin, how would that actually work.??

I'm English-born (Scottish by choice) and you might've noticed I'm full-on Separatist Scum! If you're a Tory you're a Tory wherever you live, in Scotland it's becoming more & more apparent that the only way to not get a Tory government is to become independent. Scotland always gets the government England votes for, we no longer vote Labour and given the trajectory of the current party - and its appalling attitude towards Scotland (the longer version of that Lammy clip has a cheeky reference to 'the Branch Office', which is genuinely a standing joke in these parts!) I'd imagine most left-leaning English-born residents would think twice before voting Labour these days.

An independence vote - as it was in 2014 - would be for those who are habitually resident in Scotland, wherever they were born. Interestingly many EU citizens resident in Scotland in 2014 voted 'no' because they were told independence would mean leaving the EU.

An independence vote won't be a vote on joining the EU - that would come after a successful Indy vote. Fwiw a possible hard border doesn't seem to be the deal-breaker many imagine it is, and some think that Scotland becoming independent and choosing to join, or align itself with the EU might well kick a little bit of sense back into rUK, and motivate it into re-establishing a functioning relationship with the EU. Which I happen to think is inevitable eventually anyway.

 

[mudsticks]

Labour don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of forming a government unless they are willing to do a deal with a party who have enough seats to help them over the line. Starmer says he will not do a deal under any circumstances whatsoever with the SNP.

Him being the honest man that he is, who has never reneged on a single promise, or stabbed a single former colleague (who helped him become leader) in the back, obviously he'll have no need for those 50+ SNP seats if he wants to become PM. Will he?



I'm English-born (Scottish by choice) and you might've noticed I'm full-on Separatist Scum! If you're a Tory you're a Tory wherever you live, in Scotland it's becoming more & more apparent that the only way to not get a Tory government is to become independent. Scotland always gets the government England votes for, we no longer vote Labour and given the trajectory of the current party - and its appalling attitude towards Scotland (the longer version of that Lammy clip has a cheeky reference to 'the Branch Office', which is genuinely a standing joke in these parts!) I'd imagine most left-leaning English-born residents would think twice before voting Labour these days.

An independence vote - as it was in 2014 - would be for those who are habitually resident in Scotland, wherever they were born. Interestingly many EU citizens resident in Scotland in 2014 voted 'no' because they were told independence would mean leaving the EU.

An independence vote won't be a vote on joining the EU - that would come after a successful Indy vote. Fwiw a possible hard border doesn't seem to be the deal-breaker many imagine it is, and some think that Scotland becoming independent and choosing to join, or align itself with the EU might well kick a little bit of sense back into rUK, and motivate it into re-establishing a functioning relationship with the EU. Which I happen to think is inevitable eventually anyway.

Yes that's what meant by being hoodwinked by brexit..
Scots were told they'd stay in the EU if they voted to remain in the union ..

And I wasn't suggesting for one moment that all the English now be resident in Scotland would be anti independence..
The in ones I am know personally certainly aren't.

I've half of a mind to apply for asylum there myself..

Only the short growing season..🤔

 

[Deleted member 49]

Labour don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of forming a government unless they are willing to do a deal with a party who have enough seats to help them over the line. Starmer says he will not do a deal under any circumstances whatsoever with the SNP.

Him being the honest man that he is, who has never reneged on a single promise, or stabbed a single former colleague (who helped him become leader) in the back, obviously he'll have no need for those 50+ SNP seats if he wants to become PM. Will he?



I'm English-born (Scottish by choice) and you might've noticed I'm full-on Separatist Scum! If you're a Tory you're a Tory wherever you live, in Scotland it's becoming more & more apparent that the only way to not get a Tory government is to become independent. Scotland always gets the government England votes for, we no longer vote Labour and given the trajectory of the current party - and its appalling attitude towards Scotland (the longer version of that Lammy clip has a cheeky reference to 'the Branch Office', which is genuinely a standing joke in these parts!) I'd imagine most left-leaning English-born residents would think twice before voting Labour these days.

An independence vote - as it was in 2014 - would be for those who are habitually resident in Scotland, wherever they were born. Interestingly many EU citizens resident in Scotland in 2014 voted 'no' because they were told independence would mean leaving the EU.

An independence vote won't be a vote on joining the EU - that would come after a successful Indy vote. Fwiw a possible hard border doesn't seem to be the deal-breaker many imagine it is, and some think that Scotland becoming independent and choosing to join, or align itself with the EU might well kick a little bit of sense back into rUK, and motivate it into re-establishing a functioning relationship with the EU. Which I happen to think is inevitable eventually anyway.

Your such a drain on us 🙄

View: https://twitter.com/bbcdebatenight/status/1537191018436640768?t=x8-bNH60zkOBLFLI1-D3Ug&s=19

 

[Wobblers]

I'd totally understand why Scotland might wish for independence, esp after being hoodwinked the first time over not brexitting.

But I suspect many English who now live there wouldn't vote for it.

Would Scottish born but now non resident get a say,??

Plus a hard EU / non EU border between England and Scotland, if they were to rejoin, how would that actually work.??

Scottish born here but being in England (at the time) I wasn't eligible to vote in the 2014 referendum.

I've said all this before in the old days before The Great Purge, but I'd have voted "no", simply because there really isn't (or wasn't) any significant difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK. We all share the same culture, after all. More to the point, I thought it might encourage an insular attitude, which Salmond in particular voiced ("the best wee country in the world, etc, etc"). I was wrong about that - the Brexit vote showed that Scotland was far more outward looking.

Now it's England that's been captured by insularity - and a (purportedly) national government that bends over backwards to pander to this very vocal minority. So now I'll vote "yes", because the sooner Scotland gets free from the toxic mess Johnson is generating, the better.

PS: you'd be welcome to claim asylum, Mudders. I'm sure you'd be able to cope with the shortness of the growing season (maybe try the warmer microclimate of the Cromarty Firth?). Besides just think of the long, long light evenings in summer. (He says, hoping you don't ask about the Winter Gloom.)

 

[Rusty Nails]

I don't blame Sturgeon at all for her intention to hold a vote on independence sooner than people thought she might because there is little doubt that there will never be a better time to hold it because of Brexit, oil prices, and the animosity which just about anyone outside die-hard Tories hold Johnson and the other clowns in his government.

How ironic that the Conservative and Unionist party could well cause the break-up of that Union.

I agree that the point @mudsticks makes does matter:

Plus a hard EU / non EU border between England and Scotland, if they were to rejoin, how would that actually work.??

It is not just a physical border that would cause division, but with Scotland in the EU their companies would not be free to trade with the rest of the UK, their biggest by far trading partner, as they did before but would would have to abide by the rules and checks set by the EU. Not insurmountable, but not trivial.

 

[Deleted member 28]

And you're pretty certain you know the ages of all posters too 😊

I recall you telling us you were mid 40's but also remember the Silver Jubilee clearly so someone is a little mixed up?

 

[Mr Celine]

Only the short growing season..🤔

Too short to grow aubergines so it's not such a bad thing.

 

[mudsticks]

Scottish born here but being in England (at the time) I wasn't eligible to vote in the 2014 referendum.

I've said all this before in the old days before The Great Purge, but I'd have voted "no", simply because there really isn't (or wasn't) any significant difference between Scotland and the rest of the UK. We all share the same culture, after all. More to the point, I thought it might encourage an insular attitude, which Salmond in particular voiced ("the best wee country in the world, etc, etc"). I was wrong about that - the Brexit vote showed that Scotland was far more outward looking.

Now it's England that's been captured by insularity - and a (purportedly) national government that bends over backwards to pander to this very vocal minority. So now I'll vote "yes", because the sooner Scotland gets free from the toxic mess Johnson is generating, the better.

PS: you'd be welcome to claim asylum, Mudders. I'm sure you'd be able to cope with the shortness of the growing season (maybe try the warmer microclimate of the Cromarty Firth?). Besides just think of the long, long light evenings in summer. (He says, hoping you don't ask about the Winter Gloom.)

Yes sections of the English populace has indeed displayed great insularity, and much worse of late.
Stoked up by right wing press etc..

Horrible , I hope it shifts soon.
It does none of us any good , and it hasn't always been so..

Don't imagine I haven't come up with many and various strategem for potential Scottish residency.

A series of polycrubs, with wind and solar to extend the season..
Creating deeper soils with seaweed and greenwaste composts and so on .

I could just b*gger off to Spain, Italy or Portugal for the three darkest months..

Who knows.??

Still most likely is stay here and enjoy my Scottish holiday trips for a couple of weeks spring and autumn, just pre and post midge...

Nice to look forward to

I recall you telling us you were mid 40's but also remember the Silver Jubilee clearly so someone is a little mixed up?

Yes and that mixed up someone is you.

I never said such a thing, your recall has been shown to be poor in the past, and here again too..

Probably some Scottish person said it once ..

Or possibly not.

You said in your post when you talked about my age 'Id always imagined you to be in yr mid forties"

Or words to that effect .
Then before you know it - that assumption becomes 'reality' in your head .

You might want to keep an eye on that..
Can end up making an ass of yself..

Too short to grow aubergines so it's not such a bad thing.

Ha..
It's a very unscientific study I've done, but it certainly seems to be more the male of the species who dislikes aubergine .

I know folks on the Black Isle who do manage aubergines in a good summer though.. So I guess more of sunshine in the east helps 😊🍆🍆🍆🧄

 

[icowden]

And this is why Labour under Starmer are still doomed to failure (apologies for the daily fail link):-

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...olicy-Starmer-refuses-say-party-axe-them.html

It's quite simple. When someone asks you if you would axe a policy which breaks international law and violates Human Rights such that the European Court of Human Rights has to step in, the answer is YES!

 

[Deleted member 49]

Is this the start of his leadership bid....like to say I was excited,but I'm not ! He's not fooling anyone is he ?

View: https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1538116157479206913?t=sZCx_bHffvTABS3glLRqng&s=19

 

[Rusty Nails]

If there is a last chance to improve his performance as Labour Leader this is it. He has had reasonable success so far from not being Corbyn and now from not being Johnson, but I don't think that is going to be enough to win the next election and he could even find that most of the disillusioned votes drifting away from the Tories could be going to the LDs. I fear that Scotland is already a lost cause for Labour.

He has to show a lot more courage to take the fight to the Tories, stop worrying about his image of being Mr Calm and Reasonable and realise that this could be a tipping point for future electoral success. If he cannot then he must make way for someone with the courage of their convictions.