Starmer's vision quest

[Wobblers]

This is the difference. Someone making a mistake and declaring late vs someone trying to illegally hide a massive donation.

As someone who was a lawyer, QC and Director of Public Prosecutions, I think it reasonable to expect Starmer to have a very good understanding of the rules - his whole professional career has been predicated on it, after all. It is certainly justifiable to hold Starmer to higher a standard. The argument that it was merely an honest mistake is profoundly underwhelming, appearing as it does to be a scarcely credible excuse.

 

[icowden]

As someone who was a lawyer, QC and Director of Public Prosecutions, I think it reasonable to expect Starmer to have a very good understanding of the rules - his whole professional career has been predicated on it, after all. It is certainly justifiable to hold Starmer to higher a standard. The argument that it was merely an honest mistake is profoundly underwhelming, appearing as it does to be a scarcely credible excuse.

I agree. As does the Parliamentary Watchdog who have now said there will be no investigation. The PM has stated that his team reached out for advice as to what declaration should be made and that rules are being followed. He was initially told that they did not need declaring and then approached the parlimentary authorities to make a declaration after being given updated advice on what needed to be registered.

Presumably you agree with Andrew Griffith:-

Griffith said: "It beggars belief that the prime minister thinks it's acceptable that pensioners on £13,000 a year can afford to heat their home when he earns 12 times that but apparently can't afford to clothe himself or his wife.

Of course Griffith himself would never dream of claiming expenses or donations as he has a net worth of over £20 million and lives in a £9.5 million mansion. Let me do a quick check...

• 2020 - just over £200,000 of expenses
• 2021 - just over £220,000 of expenses
• 2022 - just over £232,000 of expenses

Now to be fair that does include his staffing. He has to get by on a senior parliamentary assistant, three parliamentary assistants, 2 interns, two chiefs of staff, a case worker, an admin officer and an office manager.

Luckily he doesn't take donations...

Oh hang on...

• August £40,000 of donations
• April £16,000 of donations plus rental income from his second home and his third home

Now I will grant you that Starmer does seem to get through a *lot* of clothes having declared £16k for clothing back in May, £2.5k for glasses and a nice holiday worth £20k in August from Lord Alli. Other than that Starmer is a bit of an amateur. No second or third house to rent out, and mostly donations for football and theatre tickets. He even returned a £164,000 book advance as he gave up writing his book.
But what of his office costs? Well Lord Alli has paid for quite a bit of those - about £30k over the year. But presumably, as Prime Minister and before that leader of the opposition, he must have to have many more staff than non-entity Griffith?

• 2020 - just over £165,000 of expenses
• 2021 - just over £206,000 of expenses
• 2022 - just over £248,000 of expenses

Finally in 2022 he managed to claim more for his office staff than Griffith, although he only had 8 members of staff to Griffith's 11, so he pays his staff better too.

 

[C R]

I agree. As does the Parliamentary Watchdog who have now said there will be no investigation. The PM has stated that his team reached out for advice as to what declaration should be made and that rules are being followed. He was initially told that they did not need declaring and then approached the parlimentary authorities to make a declaration after being given updated advice on what needed to be registered.

Presumably you agree with Andrew Griffith:-

Of course Griffith himself would never dream of claiming expenses or donations as he has a net worth of over £20 million and lives in a £9.5 million mansion. Let me do a quick check...

• 2020 - just over £200,000 of expenses
• 2021 - just over £220,000 of expenses
• 2022 - just over £232,000 of expenses

Now to be fair that does include his staffing. He has to get by on a senior parliamentary assistant, three parliamentary assistants, 2 interns, two chiefs of staff, a case worker, an admin officer and an office manager.

Luckily he doesn't take donations...

Oh hang on...

• August £40,000 of donations
• April £16,000 of donations plus rental income from his second home and his third home

Now I will grant you that Starmer does seem to get through a *lot* of clothes having declared £16k for clothing back in May, £2.5k for glasses and a nice holiday worth £20k in August from Lord Alli. Other than that Starmer is a bit of an amateur. No second or third house to rent out, and mostly donations for football and theatre tickets. He even returned a £164,000 book advance as he gave up writing his book.
But what of his office costs? Well Lord Alli has paid for quite a bit of those - about £30k over the year. But presumably, as Prime Minister and before that leader of the opposition, he must have to have many more staff than non-entity Griffith?

• 2020 - just over £165,000 of expenses
• 2021 - just over £206,000 of expenses
• 2022 - just over £248,000 of expenses

Finally in 2022 he managed to claim more for his office staff than Griffith, although he only had 8 members of staff to Griffith's 11, so he pays his staff better too.

Is "the tories are worse" the best defence that can be mustered for Starmer?

 

[icowden]

Is "the tories are worse" the best defence that can be mustered for Starmer?

Yes. Starmer's only had power for what 8 weeks? I suggest we give him a chance to enact some policy and to see the result of it before we condemn the chap outright. At the moment all we have is petty nonsense like late declaration of expenses.

 

[winjim]

Yes. Starmer's only had power for what 8 weeks? I suggest we give him a chance to enact some policy and to see the result of it before we condemn the chap outright. At the moment all we have is petty nonsense like late declaration of expenses.

I'm struggling to pay my mortgage and worried that I'm going to have to sell my house, so forgive me if I'm less than sympathetic towards someone on five times my salary complaining that they don't have a clothes allowance for their spouse.

 

[spen666]

Yes. Starmer's only had power for what 8 weeks?....

Or to put it another way, over 3% of his maximum term before an election is due

 

[icowden]

I'm struggling to pay my mortgage and worried that I'm going to have to sell my house, so forgive me if I'm less than sympathetic towards someone on five times my salary complaining that they don't have a clothes allowance for their spouse.

I don't believe that at any point he has complained about not having a clothes allowance.

 

[winjim]

I don't believe that at any point he has complained about not having a clothes allowance.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-rely-on-donors-to-help-them-look-their-best


We might need to remind Mr Lammy that the equivalents to the US president and first spouse are the monarch and consort, who already receive a substantial amount from the British taxpayer. Keir Starmer's wife is a nobody.

 

[icowden]

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-rely-on-donors-to-help-them-look-their-best
We might need to remind Mr Lammy that the equivalents to the US president and first spouse are the monarch and consort, who already receive a substantial amount from the British taxpayer. Keir Starmer's wife is a nobody.

I agree. Nothing in that link shows a complaint from Starmer.

 

[winjim]

I agree. Nothing in that link shows a complaint from Starmer.

OK somebody on three times my salary complaining that their boss, on five times my salary etc etc

Was Lammy briefed, do you think?

 

[BoldonLad]

Probably still had enough to buy his own suits and glasses though. When Labour have spent years castigating the Tories for the same thing people are understandably disappointed that the freebies/cash for access issue is a Labour failing too.

I don’t think there is any “probably” about, he can afford to clothe himself, AND his wife.

 

[BoldonLad]

Why the fuss? Boris and his wallpaper, Starmer and specs/clothes. Two cheeks of the same a*se.

Politicians have always had snouts in the trough. so what’s new, including the hypocrisy from both sides?

I wouldn’t be surprised if even Michael Foot had his donkey jacket sponsored by Millets.

Millets? Surely not, NCB or British Rail now, perhaps 😊

 

[BoldonLad]

Quick fact check. Lord Alli paid for £5000 worth of clothes. The estimate for Boris's redecoration of Downing Street was £200,000 of which £2,260 was wallpaper for one room (total wall paper came to er - just under £5,000). Lord Brownlow contributed £170,000 of the cost.

So yes, all politicians might have their "snouts in the trough" but Johnson was wallowing in it like a pig in mud, while Starmer just had a snack in comparison. Oh - and Starmer's donation was legal, he just didn't declare it in time. Johnsons was illegal and he had to pay back the donation and use his own money instead, and the Conservative party was fined for trying to pretend it didn't happen.


This is the difference. Someone making a mistake and declaring late vs someone trying to illegally hide a massive donation.

So, instead of condemning snouts in the trough, we are discussing how far in. Pathetic.

 

[Ian H]

Why the fuss? Boris and his wallpaper, Starmer and specs/clothes. Two cheeks of the same a*se.

Politicians have always had snouts in the trough. so what’s new, including the hypocrisy from both sides?

I wouldn’t be surprised if even Michael Foot had his donkey jacket sponsored by Millets.

It wasn't a donkey jacket, it was a mid-length woollen overcoat bought by his wife at Harrods. He was complimented on it by the then Queen Mother.

 

[icowden]

So, instead of condemning snouts in the trough, we are discussing how far in. Pathetic.

Not really. We are comparing a legal donation made late due to lack of clarity on the rules with the very illegal donations received by previous Prime Ministers.