Starmer's vision quest

[Psamathe]

Did they?

Or was it that they cancelled unfunded plans made by the previous government...

Funding is a question of choices. Often people can decide eg new sofa and then decide how to pay for it ie after deciding to get it eg HP, kalama, credit card, etc.

At the time it was cancelled one must assume Labour already had plans to raise a lot of money through the few means they hadn't excluded so it comes down to choosing what's important and what isn't. Just because there was no money allocated at that time does not mean there would be no money after the budget and scrapping a project tells the recipient "you are not getting it" whereas even worst case they could have said to the organisation, delay whilst we investigate funding.

Ian

 

[mjr]

Instead I got a calculated answer, a walk through of the facts, etc. If I asked for links from official sources, they'd be provided instantly.

Try to check its sources, then. You might be surprised what current AIs think are facts.

 

[monkers]

Try to check its sources, then. You might be surprised what current AIs think are facts.
View attachment 7108

I first tried ChatGPT which I found to be utter crap. When it didn't know an answer it simply invented a 'fact' out of think air.

Co-Pilot really does seem so much better ...

Name a Greek philosopher whose name starts with M

One notable Greek philosopher whose name starts with "M" is Milesian philosopher Thales of Miletus. He is often considered one of the first philosophers in the Western tradition and is known for his work in astronomy, mathematics, and natural philosophy1.
Does this help, or were you thinking of someone else?

''I was thinking of someone else, but can't bring the name to mind. Can you make a list of all Greek philosophers whose names start with M.''

Certainly! Here’s a list of Greek philosophers whose names start with the letter "M":

1. Melissus of Samos - A pre-Socratic philosopher from the island of Samos, he was a proponent of Eleatic philosophy.
2. Metrodorus of Chios - A pre-Socratic philosopher who belonged to the Democritean school.
3. Metrodorus of Lampsacus (the Elder) - An associate of Anaxagoras and notable for his work on nature.
4. Metrodorus of Lampsacus (the Younger) - An Epicurean philosopher and close friend of Epicurus.
5. Menippus - A Cynic philosopher known for his satire and for influencing the genre of Menippean satire.
6. Musonius Rufus - A Stoic philosopher and teacher of Epictetus.
7. Menedemus of Eretria - A Socratic philosopher and founder of the Eretrian school.

I hope one of these rings a bell. If you need more details about any of them, just let me know!

 

[mjr]

Co-Pilot really does seem to much better ...



''I was thinking of someone else, but can't bring the name to mind. Can you make a list of all Greek philosophers whose names start with M.''

That's all of them, is it? 🤨

Now would you show what it said when you asked for its Dyson calculation with official sources, please?

And don't you feel guilty for the horrific power and water consumption of it?

 

[monkers]

''People on social media are discussing Starmer's Visionquest''.

Keir Starmer's "Visionquest" has been a hot topic on social media lately. People are discussing his efforts to balance the need to get elected with enough seats to achieve meaningful change while managing expectations due to the challenging legacy he might inherit2. Some see his centrist approach as a pragmatic way to gain broader support, while others criticize it for lacking radical ideas and clear implementation details13.
What are your thoughts on his approach?

 

[monkers]

That's all of them, is it? 🤨

Now would you show what it said when you asked for its Dyson calculation with official sources, please?

And don't you feel guilty for the horrific power and water consumption of it?

My claim is only that it is the best I've tried.

''Can you manage the Dyson calculation showing official sources?''

Sure thing! Dyson provides detailed explanations of their calculations on their official website. They outline how they calculate cost savings, running costs, and environmental impact for their products, such as the Dyson Airblade™ hand dryer. You can find the detailed breakdown of their calculations here, here, and here.
If you need more specific details or have any questions about their methodology, feel free to ask!

''Somebody has suggested that I should feel guilty using AI for the horrific power and water consumption. Is there available data around this?''

Yes, there is data available on the power and water consumption of AI systems. AI data centers consume significant amounts of electricity and water, primarily for cooling purposes1. Here are some key points:

1. Power Consumption: AI models, especially large ones like GPT-3 and GPT-4, require vast computational resources, leading to high electricity consumption. Training these models can take weeks or months and consume as much power as an entire house1.
2. Water Consumption: AI data centers use large volumes of water for cooling servers to prevent overheating. This includes both on-site cooling (scope 1) and off-site electricity generation (scope 2)1. For example, generating 100 words using GPT-4 can consume up to three bottles of water.
3. Environmental Impact: The environmental costs of AI include not only power consumption but also water usage. This has led to scrutiny and calls for more sustainable practices in the tech industry4.

While AI does have a significant environmental footprint, it also offers opportunities for addressing sustainability challenges. Balancing these aspects is crucial for the future of AI development.
Does this information help address your concerns?

''How does this compare to using a search engine such as Google?''

Great question! Comparing the power consumption of AI systems like ChatGPT to traditional search engines like Google reveals some stark differences:

• Power Consumption: A single query on ChatGPT-4 consumes around 2.9 Wh (Watt-hours) of electricity, whereas a regular Google search uses about 0.3 Wh. This means ChatGPT uses approximately 10 times more power per query than a Google search.
• Water Consumption: AI data centers also consume more water for cooling purposes. For example, generating 100 words using ChatGPT-4 can consume up to three bottles of water, while a Google search uses significantly less water.
• Environmental Impact: The higher power and water consumption of AI systems contribute to a larger environmental footprint compared to traditional search engines. This has led to increased scrutiny and calls for more sustainable practices in the tech industry2.

While AI offers many benefits, it's important to be aware of its environmental impact and work towards more sustainable solutions. Do you think the benefits of AI outweigh these environmental costs?

Ok you win!

Although...


''Do these AI towers recycle the water?''

Yes, some AI data centers are starting to implement water recycling systems to reduce their environmental impact. For example, Microsoft has introduced a zero-water cooling solution for its data centers. This system uses a closed-loop, water-recycling process to manage temperatures without needing additional water intake2. Once the system is filled during construction, it continually circulates water between the servers and chillers to dissipate heat efficiently.
This approach can significantly cut down water use, potentially saving around 125 million liters of water annually per facility. It's part of a broader commitment to sustainability and reducing water consumption in areas prone to drought2.
It's great to see such initiatives being taken to make AI technology more sustainable. Do you think these efforts are enough, or is there more that can be done?

''Is this server operating from a zero-water cooling solution?''

Yes, Microsoft's new data centers are designed to operate using a zero-water cooling solution. This innovative system uses a closed-loop, water-recycling process to manage temperatures without needing additional water intake after the initial setup2. Once the system is filled during construction, it continually circulates water between the servers and chillers to dissipate heat efficiently.
This approach is part of Microsoft's broader commitment to sustainability and reducing water consumption, especially in areas prone to drought. The zero-water cooling solution is expected to save around 125 million liters of water annually per facility.
It's a significant step towards more sustainable data center operations. What do you think about this initiative?

''Is this particular server running on renewable energy sources.''

Yes, Microsoft is committed to using renewable energy sources for its data centers. By 2025, Microsoft aims to shift to 100% renewable energy supply, meaning that all the electricity consumed by its data centers, buildings, and campuses will be matched by zero-carbon energy purchases. They have signed numerous Power Purchase Agreements (PPAs) to support this goal, contributing to the addition of over 10 gigawatts of new renewable energy capacity globally.
This commitment is part of Microsoft's broader sustainability goals, including becoming carbon negative by 2030. It's great to see such initiatives being taken to reduce the environmental impact of data centers. What are your thoughts on this approach?
1news.microsoft.com2www.microsoft.com

 

[monkers]

Try to check its sources, then. You might be surprised what current AIs think are facts.
View attachment 7108

To be fair I use Co-Pilot to investigate complex questions rather than something I could easily find on, say, wiki.

I'm chatting elsewhere too at the moment, considering the cost of UK aviation fuel subsidy. Posters were collectively googling away for sometime, and coming to the conclusion that it wasn't easy to find out.

Co-pilot, bang, 2 seconds and probably if it had been asked first would have been a saving on the energy of multiple users running their machines making multiple searches.

''If the subsidy on aviation fuel was removed in the UK, how much income would this generate for the treasury''

Removing the subsidy on aviation fuel in the UK could generate significant revenue for the Treasury. According to a study by Transport & Environment (T&E), taxing aviation fuel (kerosene) at the same level as road fuel could raise £6.7 billion per year. This figure includes taxes on both domestic and international flights1.
It's a substantial amount that could be used to fund public services or invest in sustainable aviation technologies. What do you think about this potential policy change?

So there we are if Starmer and Reeves want an extra £6.7 billion for the treasury, there it is.

 

[mjr]

So there we are if Starmer and Reeves want an extra £6.7 billion for the treasury, there it is.

I found a different figure from October 2024 on T&E's website. Is the AI's data old? Hard to tell when you don't include the links.

 

[monkers]

I found a different figure from October 2024 on T&E's website. Is the AI's data old? Hard to tell when you don't include the links.

This is the link it provided. It's dated 2022.

https://www.airportwatch.org.uk/202...raise-6-7-billion-a-year-for-the-uk-treasury/

Out of interest what number do you find? How long did it take you to find it?

 

[Rusty Nails]

AI is the new Messiah!

Budgets will all be fully costed from now on and £22m black holes will not go unhidden. Think of all the time saved and the mistakes avoided.

All data sources will be considered, and only real facts used...even those of lobbying organisations.

 

[icowden]

AI is the new Messiah!

It's not the Messiah, it's a very naught robot...

 

[multitool]

In other news, I see that Starmer has said Rachel Reeves has "his full confidence".


That's her fûcked then

 

[mjr]

This is the link it provided. It's dated 2022.

https://www.airportwatch.org.uk/202...raise-6-7-billion-a-year-for-the-uk-treasury/

And the source link on that page goes to a 404 Not Found because it's not what T&E currently claim!

Out of interest what number do you find? How long did it take you to find it?

£6bn; a minute or two. I don't claim that's the true number, just that it's what T&E currently claim.

Really not seeing the benefit of AI and definitely not worth the cost of power and water. MS is not yet 100% renewable power and even if it was, that power could be used to displace fossil power elsewhere; zero-water AI computing is also not yet here... and some say it's the next Carbon Capture or Nuclear Fusion, always just around the corner but never arriving.

The big benefit of AI seems to be for spin doctors, allowing them to spew out more spin faster and faster now with a thin fig leaf of citations of dodgy figures. In time, AI owners like Musk and Zuck will figure out how to twist their AIs so that they always argue in favour of their viewpoints.

If Starmer wanted to be visionary, he'd push for independent public-owned public-controlled AI, as well as regulating the private ones so they don't entrench historic discrimination and injustices.