Starmer's vision quest

[theclaud]

In think this illustrates the Noddy in Toyland level that most of the electorate operate at, more than his actual performance. Hence why populists get so much traction these days, with their false promises.

It's not just "populists" that make false promises. Our current PM achieved power through what it would be generous to describe as a campaign of shameless and cynical fraud. And how is this technique of insulting the intelligence of "most of the electorate" working out for everyone, in your opinion?

 

[First Aspect]

It's not just "populists" that make false promises. Our current PM achieved power through what it would be generous to describe as a campaign of shameless and cynical fraud. And how is this technique of insulting the intelligence of "most of the electorate" working out for everyone, in your opinion?

It's a question of degrees I suppose. I feel less lied to by far than under Boris, during the referendum, by Nigel Garbage, the current Tories, the SNP or Corbyn.

What in particular bothers you?

 

[C R]

It's a question of degrees I suppose. I feel less lied to by far than under Boris, during the referendum, by Nigel Garbage, the current Tories, the SNP or Corbyn.

What in particular bothers you?

Could you exemplify Corbyn's and the SNP's lies?

 

[First Aspect]

Could you exemplify Corbyn's and the SNP's lies?

The SNP is easy. They say we (at the time) would be better off independent. Or that there'd be no hard border.

 

[First Aspect]

Or we could keep the pound.

 

[First Aspect]

As for Corbyn broadly speaking it was the magic money tree rhetoric.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50501411

This is quite entertaining. Nationalise everything. Free bus travel (and internet), no pension age rises. It was fantasy really.

(But he wasn't the worst I suppose - that prize has to go to Boris)

 

[First Aspect]

Or we could keep the pound.

Or that the rUK would continue to spend on defence, award defence contracts and house military up here and no one associated with the military or associated industries need worry their little heads.

 

[First Aspect]

Or that the rUK would continue to spend on defence, award defence contracts and house military up here and no one associated with the military or associated industries need worry their little heads.

Or that we would be welcomed with open arms almost instantaneously back into the EU, despite the crippling deficit.

Or that we could let the rUK take Scotland's share of the UK national debt.

Or that, because the use of the pound was clearly dumb as toast, we could set up a Scottish pound wouldn't that be nice and not drop in value like a stone.

Or that we wouldn't have to use the Euro, once the EU begged us to join.

Not to mention the vast sovereign wealth fund we could set up, based on North Sea oil.

Had enough of the SNP yet, or do you want more comedy gold?

 

[briantrumpet]

In a nutshell, any politician who tells you there's an easy answer is lying. Every choice is a hard one, and someone's going to lose out. But no-one wanting to be elected can be truthful, because voters vote for lies, because it's easier to vote for fantastical lies than accept that everything's A Bit Shît, and the best we can do is the Less Shît option.

If voters didn't go for the snake oil salesmen every time, and the ones handing out the most money to *me*, then maybe we'd get more honesty about the hard/impossible choices politicians have to make every day. Ditto the ridiculous premium we put on not making U-turns, when admitting a poor initial choice and a bit of pragmatism to correct that would be the best course of action for everyone.

The whole thing is an idiotic charade most of the time. The pity is, if you talk to politicians, a lot of them have gone into politics because they'd like to make stuff happen, but the way voters vote for fantasy stuff ties their hands to making impossible promises.

 

[secretsqirrel]

In a nutshell, any politician who tells you there's an easy answer is lying. Every choice is a hard one, and someone's going to lose out. But no-one wanting to be elected can be truthful, because voters vote for lies, because it's easier to vote for fantastical lies than accept that everything's A Bit Shît, and the best we can do is the Less Shît option.

If voters didn't go for the snake oil salesmen every time, and the ones handing out the most money to *me*, then maybe we'd get more honesty about the hard/impossible choices politicians have to make every day. Ditto the ridiculous premium we put on not making U-turns, when admitting a poor initial choice and a bit of pragmatism to correct that would be the best course of action for everyone.

The whole thing is an idiotic charade most of the time. The pity is, if you talk to politicians, a lot of them have gone into politics because they'd like to make stuff happen, but the way voters vote for fantasy stuff ties their hands to making impossible promises.

I think this is very much the case. It is impossible to be true to your principles because there really is no reward for telling the truth.

 

[CXRAndy]

any politician who tells you there's an easy answer is lying.

Correct

What modern day politicians lack is the balls to make radical decisions

 

[Pross]

Starmer made a massive rod for his back by getting tricked into saying no income tax, NI or VAT rises. He didn’t have to do it as the election win was pretty much assured. All he had to do was say something like ‘we need to see the books before determining what is needed to fix public services’. I guess that should have been a clue that he was going to be another that would do what is popular instead of sticking with any kind of principles or ideology.

 

[Pblakeney]

...because it's easier to vote for fantastical lies than accept that everything's A Bit Shît, and the best we can do is the Less Shît option.

I voted for the "everything's a bit sh!t, and the best we can do is the less sh!t" option 12 months ago.
No, things aren't as good as I hoped but they are still better than I feared they could be with the other lot.

PS - I said at the time that we were all going to have to pay for any improvements and didn't believe the "no tax rises" BS.

 

[briantrumpet]

I voted for the "everything's a bit sh!t, and the best we can do is the less sh!t" option 12 months ago.
No, things aren't as good as I hoped but they are still better than I feared they could be with the other lot.

PS - I said at the time that we were all going to have to pay for any improvements and didn't believe the "no tax rises" BS.

Ditto. Still content with that choice, even if Starmer is turning out a bit shït while chasing the Reform vote.

 

[Psamathe]

because voters vote for lies, because it's easier to vote for fantastical lies than accept that everything's A Bit Shît

I've been thinking about this recently and sort of got to too many people are too stupid and too lazy and really we're getting what we deserve (on a population basis). Maybe our education system is failing as people seem too ready to believe twaddle, both from politicians and social media eg dropping vaccination rated despite their being free! And driven by Xitter, Facebook, Tick Tok, etc. Maybe better education might help more be more questioning, to double check suspicious stuff, etc.

Ian