Starmer's vision quest

[CXRAndy]

Such as?

1. Education
2. Healthcare (NHS Scotland)
3. Ferry Services (Ferguson Marine)
4. Gender Recognition Reform Bill
5. Drug and Alcohol Policy
6. Poverty and Social Welfare
7. Infrastructure and Transport
8. Criminal Justice and Policing
9. Independence Focus Over Governance
10. Environmental and Energy Policy

SNP pretty much banged on about independence and trans, whilst everything else got worse, wasted hundreds of millions

 

[AndyRM]

You presume a great deal. The SNP, at a point before the UK government blocked every viable, legitimate route & began its slow rollback of devolution, represented the only viable conduit for Scotland to achieve independence. Now, if you like a modicum of humanity with your politics, they're just a better option than Labour, Reform, what's left of the Tories and whatever the hell the LibDems are meant to be.

In an independent Scotland I'd probably vote Green. But that won't happen in my lifetime, if at all.

We're too wee and too stupid to deserve independence. Never forget that.

You've obviously not been tugging your forelock enough lately.

 

[First Aspect]

We're too wee and too stupid to deserve independence. Never forget that.

You've obviously not been tugging your forelock enough lately.

If the Scottish electorate want it, and vote in full knowledge that it will be at least a generation before the large net negative financial implications are addressed, that's fine.

But selling it as the land of milk and honey is profoundly dishonest. Also dishonest is pretending EU membership would be a given, without even more financial hardship to remove all the trinkets that are resulting in that huge annual budget deficit. Also dishonest is every single thing said about the currently issue,.whether it's the lies about the British pound, the Scottish groat or the Euro. Also dishonest is what is said about the border issue and the defence issues, as regards what the rUK would need to do.

But if there was full honesty about how profoundly hard and disruptive independence would be for the actual people who vote for it, rather than their descendents (and who knows what it would hold for them), then that's fine.

Thing is, if the SNP were honest about it, no one would vote for it.

 

[CXRAndy]

We're too wee and too stupid to deserve independence. Never forget that.

You've obviously not been tugging your forelock enough lately.

No, you're not too stupid, just didn't think it through.

Scots plan was, no border controls with England, keep the pound, join the EU, who would demand a border, joining the euro.

No real independence, just a ploy to get into bed with EU.

Who would then screw the Scottish fishing industry, slap loads of bureaucracy on Scotland.

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1940147560913457490?t=DysdYUVH4vJMK3tIHLU1bQ&s=19


Jesus's, didn't realise everyone with a pimple and headache is getting a disabled vehicle.

You lot are paying the extra billions in tax Rachel's going to be slapping you with this autumn

 

[First Aspect]

No, you're not too stupid, just didn't think it through.

Scots plan was, no border controls with England, keep the pound, join the EU, who would demand a border, joining the euro.

No real independence, just a ploy to get into bed with EU.

Who would then screw the Scottish fishing industry, slap loads of bureaucracy on Scotland.

It's not even that, it's about local control and a hated of "Westminster" - which is a thinly veiled euphemism for England.

The irony is that all parts of Scotland are against independence with the exception of Glasgow and Dundee. Because Glasgow is so large, it skews the vote. Far flung regions such as the Hebridean islands are very pro UK, so you would have independence imposed upon them.

Sound familiar, if you tweak some of the proper nouns?

When it comes to things like this, I have to question how small a resolution does "self determination" require?

 

[cookiemonster]

1. Education
2. Healthcare (NHS Scotland)
3. Ferry Services (Ferguson Marine)
4. Gender Recognition Reform Bill
5. Drug and Alcohol Policy
6. Poverty and Social Welfare
7. Infrastructure and Transport
8. Criminal Justice and Policing
9. Independence Focus Over Governance
10. Environmental and Energy Policy

SNP pretty much banged on about independence and trans, whilst everything else got worse, wasted hundreds of millions

Drug policy - Not devolved
Energy - Not devolved
NHS Scotland performing better than before (although far from perfect)
Poverty and Social Welfare - for many years, 10 of the poorest areas in the UK were in Scotland, now the poorest areas are all in the North of England, not Scotland.
Education - According to the OECD, better than the OECD average.
Ferry services and Gender Recognition - can't comment as I don't know about that.
Independence - Yes. If Scotland is to move on and use our resources for our people, instead of subsidising England, we need to 'Take Back Control.'

 

[First Aspect]

If the drug policy is not devolved, then there is a governance issue in Scotland, given the scale of the problem.

On the NHS side, A&E wait times and elective surgery wait times both are worse than in England. NHS in Scotland is funded more per capita, has more doctors and more beds. Tax is significantly higher (another bonus of devolution because you lost the Barnett consequentials for each thing the SNP wanted control of). So, you pay more for less (excepting free prescriptions even for people like me who didn't need it, and cardboard boxes with perfect hygge to store babies in). So the NHS might be getting less worse over recent months, but used to be as good or better.

How can this possibly be Westminster's fault?

You mention education, of which Scotland has the finest tradition. As far as I am aware, Scotland is falling down the international literacy and numeracy rankings. At HE level, Universities are both going bankrupt and excluding local students because they can't afford more "free" university places for them.

How is that Westminster's fault?

I don't think it is true to say all energy issues are not devolved. The SNP were in charge of the sea bed auctions, where the country was sold out to the tune of about 90% of the value that other counties secured leases for, because the Greens (who are innumerate morons) insisted on a *maximum* amount that anyone could bid. Extraordinary levels or idealism.

While the SNP isn't in charge of offshore drilling licenses, they are certainly leading the way in not knowing quite whether to support or oppose it. Depends on the apparent route to independence at any particular moment, as far as I can tell. So they were opposed when they had to be under the Bute House agreement. And flip flopped as soon as that collapsed. A real illustration of their convictions.

 

[CXRAndy]

It's not even that, it's about local control and a hated of "Westminster

Their plan, the SNP was to immediately join the EU.

They were swapping one overlord for another

 

[First Aspect]

Their plan, the SNP was to immediately join the EU.

They were swapping one overlord for another

Yes and no. They used the EU vote as a mechanism for arguing that their once in a generation vote should be one every few years until they got the answer they wanted, whereupon there would be no more. They argued about immediately rejoining until the EU politely said they could apply like any other prospective member, and would need to meet the same economic requirements and join the Euro. Even after that, the SNP said they wouldn't have to join the Euro, and have latterly say on the fence about EU membership, given they it would take at least a decade.

As far as I know, that's now a long term aspiration with "closer ties" being the immediate aim. Since the EEA might not be a thing for much longer, even that seems a little shakier.

All the while, they are still pretending - in the face of all economic advice - that there won't be damage to trade with rUK.

 

[Xipe Totec]

You know what - this is genuinely lovely, and I mean that from a place of the most profound sincerity!

NACA/NCAP, as a microcosm of discourse, displays all of the rage, hostility and genuine personal loathing that has come to typify the breadth of political polarisation & division across the UK in 2025.

And yet, and yet, and yet - all it takes to unify a spectrum as broad, as downright disparate, as the most deluded & craven Starmer excuse-makers on one side, and furious, dribbling, anencephalic MAGA binburners on the other - all it takes is a chance to express their shared limitless, flawless, encyclopaedic Understanding Of Scottish Politics, to bring them all together, united as one in a ringing, harmonious chorus of gloating, sneering and ridicule!

I can't express the warm, fuzzy joy it gives me to be the catalyst for healing - even temporarily - the rifts between you all.

It's like the UK parliament in 2014 all over again. Better together! 🥰

 

[First Aspect]

You know what - this is genuinely lovely, and I mean that from a place of the most profound sincerity!

NACA/NCAP, as a microcosm of discourse, displays all of the rage, hostility and genuine personal loathing that has come to typify the breadth of political polarisation & division across the UK in 2025.

And yet, and yet, and yet - all it takes to unify a spectrum as broad, as downright disparate, as the most deluded & craven Starmer excuse-makers on one side, and furious, dribbling, anencephalic MAGA binburners on the other - all it takes is a chance to express their shared limitless, flawless, encyclopaedic Understanding Of Scottish Politics, to bring them all together, united as one in a ringing, harmonious chorus of gloating, sneering and ridicule!

I can't express the warm, fuzzy joy it gives me to be the catalyst for healing - even temporarily - the rifts between you all.

It's like the UK parliament in 2014 all over again. Better together! 🥰

It's a shame that in Scottish political discourse, it doesn't take long before one side descends into a straw man argument that pointing out political incompetence and dishonesty amounts to adopting a "side" together with other issues.

In a statement of breathtaking irony and staggering lack of self awareness, the great and lovely mother of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon lamented (after leaving office of her own volition, to go on a long planned motorhome tour - now cancelled), how divisive Scottish politics had become.

Just thank God we still have Judy Murray.

 

[Xipe Totec]

It's a shame that in Scottish political discourse, it doesn't take long before one side descends into a straw man argument that pointing out political incompetence and dishonesty amounts to adopting a "side" together with other issues.

In a statement of breathtaking irony and staggering lack of self awareness, the great and lovely mother of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon lamented (after leaving office of her own volition, to go on a long planned motorhome tour - now cancelled), how divisive Scottish politics had become.

Just thank God we still have Judy Murray.

Can't help wondering - did Nicola Sturgeon, at some point, take a Shirley Manson-esque dump on your breakfast cereal, or something?

Rhetorical question, btw.

 

[First Aspect]

Can't help wondering - did Nicola Sturgeon, at some point, take a Shirley Manson-esque dump on your breakfast cereal, or something?

Rhetorical question, btw.

I honestly found the Scottish political climate and the effect it had on incomers like me, quite distressing at times. Woth the greatest respect, Scottish people are more brusque and aggressive than some other parts of the UK.

I was British English in a new place I really liked, but I felt like every time I turned on the telly or radio that I was being campaigned against by Scottish Scottish people. It didn't help that my neighbours were classic hostile SNP Yes voters of low IQ. And yes, there's a correlation.

The poor governance was also costly, because I was an above average earner.

This isn't why I left, but it didn't help. We were going to move house anyway, and prices here and in the Borders are somewhat similar (less land per £ here perhaps). Since I'd be £500 a month worse off in Scotland, this translated into a difference in mortgage payments between the house we wanted and what we could afford in each place. So we are here.in a house we wanted and can afford, and Scotland's income tax take is less than it would have been to the tune of several average full time earners.

I'm no right winger, nor a rabid leftie, but this sort of consequence will not be unique and is not what Scotland needs.

 

[Xipe Totec]

Funny. As I may have mentioned, I'm from Kent originally, and despite having lived in Scotland 30+ years, still sound like I've never been north of Dartford. I have never once encountered any hostility because of my accent or birthplace, despite having lived in one of the roughest bits of South Edinburgh for 10 years, and spending many years playing in bands gigging in hundreds of terrifying pubs & clubs across the central belt.

Maybe being dragged up in the Medway Towns area of Norf Kent means I fit right in with all those "classic hostile SNP Yes voters of low IQ".

I dunno - d'you think there's a correlation?