Starmer's vision quest

[First Aspect]

They are in last chance saloon. The self imposed fiscal rules require debt to GDP to fall across a parliament. That means it gets progressively more difficult to get back the the right side of the line the further into a parliament you get.

Fwiw capital gains is ripe for alignment with income tax, perhaps not in one go. The tax system needs fewer ways to get less tax once you get to the extremely wealthy stage. Probably there is alignment with some major EU counties available on windfall taxes also. If others are doing it, there's less opportunity to be threatened by the businesses in question.

What a shame we are no longer part of a very large trading cartel.

 

[Psamathe]

Sultana and others had the Whip removed becuase they voted on a motion to remove the two child limit. Just arguing for it to go isn't an issue.

Somebody arguing for something, supporting it but then just doing as leader tells them to is not representing their electorate, they would be representing the party leader.

The vote is just a reflection of their views and what they've been arguing for so I don't see the vote as making any difference. Seems to me it's more about "toeing the party line" rather than doing your job as an elected MP. Almost worse if being thrown out is because you didn't discard your beliefs when Starmer tells you to.

 

[Pblakeney]

Somebody arguing for something, supporting it but then just doing as leader tells them to is not representing their electorate, they would be representing the party leader.

The vote is just a reflection of their views and what they've been arguing for so I don't see the vote as making any difference. Seems to me it's more about "toeing the party line" rather than doing your job as an elected MP. Almost worse if being thrown out is because you didn't discard your beliefs when Starmer tells you to.

Welcome to party politics and the Whip.

 

[monkers]

Welcome to party politics and the Whip.

On that basis, parliament only has a function when there is a free vote, such as the foxhunting vote. Also ministers are required to resign from their ministerial post if they intend to vote against the government. Maybe this is a point for the other thread ''does anyone take the Greens seriously?' because the Greens do not and will not have a whip system.

 

[briantrumpet]

Listening to a Newscast interview with former advisor Tom Baldwin, who is of the opinion that McSweeney is a good talented guy. The problem he sees is that he just needs to make sure as Chief of Staff that everybody does the job they have been given and stop fighting ‘perception’, which is disrupting the serious work of government.

e.g, All this stuff about Wes Streeting yesterday, which should have been a day for the NHS, should have been dealt with a short dismissive statement. Instead it was taken up with hand wringing, apologies and fighting noise.

The evidence of McSweeney's brilliance/talent should be in the perception of Labour amongst the electorate. I'd humbly suggest that he's failing: the number of political mis-steps is overwhelming... hardly a single announcement of policy or the policies themselves hasn't landed without cock-up & confusion, and those that have potentially been good (e.g. getting rid of elected regional police commissioners) have been drowned out by the screw-ups.

 

[Psamathe]

The evidence of McSweeney's brilliance/talent should be in the perception of Labour amongst the electorate. I'd humbly suggest that he's failing: the number of political mis-steps is overwhelming... hardly a single announcement of policy or the policies themselves hasn't landed without cock-up & confusion, and those that have potentially been good (e.g. getting rid of elected regional police commissioners) have been drowned out by the screw-ups.

Good example. Since before they started I thought Police Commissioners were a complete waste of time and money. I've contacted mine on several occasions and their response has confirmed my view. Whilst not a major change in the scale of challenges, Labour got this right, good policy yet probably nobody noticed as swamped by political in-party squabbles. It's daft and another example of our politics (or rather politicians) failing (again).

 

[First Aspect]

Good example. Since before they started I thought Police Commissioners were a complete waste of time and money. I've contacted mine on several occasions and their response has confirmed my view. Whilst not a major change in the scale of challenges, Labour got this right, good policy yet probably nobody noticed as swamped by political in-party squabbles. It's daft and another example of our politics (or rather politicians) failing (again).

That's not all. They announced it without consultation, so if it goes tits up they can't justify the decision.

 

[secretsqirrel]

The evidence of McSweeney's brilliance/talent should be in the perception of Labour amongst the electorate. I'd humbly suggest that he's failing: the number of political mis-steps is overwhelming... hardly a single announcement of policy or the policies themselves hasn't landed without cock-up & confusion, and those that have potentially been good (e.g. getting rid of elected regional police commissioners) have been drowned out by the screw-ups.

I think that was what Baldwin was saying in a very diplomatic way. McSweeney is the right guy in the wrong job.

 

[Pross]

It feels like we didn't have a General Election last year and we've just continued with the same bunch of idiots in charge with no other aim than to try to be popular and deciding policy on how 'leaks' are perceived by a small section of the public that make lots of noise (basically driven by media reporting).

 

[First Aspect]

It feels like we didn't have a General Election last year and we've just continued with the same bunch of idiots in charge with no other aim than to try to be popular and deciding policy on how 'leaks' are perceived by a small section of the public that make lots of noise (basically driven by media reporting).

Polling data driven policy making doesn't seem compatible with long term planning, to me.

 

[Pross]

Polling data driven policy making doesn't seem compatible with long term planning, to me.

It's a ridiculous system that seems to have gone out of control in the last 10 years or so. Part of governing is to do things that are unpopular, ideally the unpopular things end up being for 'the better good' and you get forgiven.

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/benonwine/status/1989238072144474451?t=Jxhdo4voRP5MWJ1eAFFk8Q&s=19

 

[briantrumpet]

Polling data driven policy making doesn't seem compatible with long term planning, to me.

Exactly. Rather than use their massive majority to push through on principle & pragmatism, they seem to have been responding on each decision to micro-polling as if the election were next year rather than 2029, with the result being chronic short-termism.

 

[Psamathe]

Polling data driven policy making doesn't seem compatible with long term planning, to me.

They (Starmer/Labour) do have a plan - to get re-elected next General Election. They don't seem to have much idea why they want to be re-elected or anything, just to "win".

 

[Psamathe]

It's a ridiculous system that seems to have gone out of control in the last 10 years or so. Part of governing is to do things that are unpopular, ideally the unpopular things end up being for 'the better good' and you get forgiven.

One area where Labour have completely messed-up is their way way out of control listening to professional lobbyists from for profits with vested interests.