Starmer's vision quest

[First Aspect]

What sort of smell are you thinking of here?

Bullshit, I think.

 

[matticus]

Don’t know on the hotels but I doubt anyone is risking their lives coming here to be put up in the old pub 200m from me along with people just released from prison. It’s not exactly The Ritz. As pointed out the bill is far higher than it needs to be because the ‘tough on immigration’ Tories cut the number of staff processing applications. They also sounded a huge amount on the Rwanda scheme that could have been used to build specialist facilities in their 14 years in charge.

Yes: the cost of the Rwanda scheme and the crazy floating prison hotel could have built a heck of a lot simple dorm facilities, or of course actually processed the applications!!!

 

[CXRAndy]

Bullshit, I think.

So you didn't look at the clip linked?

 

[BoldonLad]

Don’t know on the hotels but I doubt anyone is risking their lives coming here to be put up in the old pub 200m from me along with people just released from prison. It’s not exactly The Ritz. As pointed out the bill is far higher than it needs to be because the ‘tough on immigration’ Tories cut the number of staff processing applications. They also sounded a huge amount on the Rwanda scheme that could have been used to build specialist facilities in their 14 years in charge.

As for health and dental care, surely they’re just basic human rights? The totals will be a drop in the ocean compared to the NHS budget.

Most patients are no doubt, a "drop in the ocean", but, lots and lots of drops MAKE an ocean

 

[Pross]

Most patients are no doubt, a "drop in the ocean", but, lots and lots of drops MAKE an ocean

But the overall number of asylum seekers is a relative drop in the ocean in comparison to the overall population. It is also another instance of the length of the decision making process impacting on cost. If we can get decisions done faster then there's less likelihood of these people requiring medical or dental care. Cutting back on resources for determining applications in order to look like you are being tough is a big false economy.

 

[BoldonLad]

But the overall number of asylum seekers is a relative drop in the ocean in comparison to the overall population. It is also another instance of the length of the decision making process impacting on cost. If we can get decisions done faster then there's less likelihood of these people requiring medical or dental care. Cutting back on resources for determining applications in order to look like you are being tough is a big false economy.

As I have said before (numerous times) I am not "anti-immigrant", it is the failure to effectively "get the message out" which alarms me, and, the consequent rise of Farage types. There is a significant proportion of the population who see immigration as a problem, telling them that it is a "drop in the ocean" does not address the issue.

 

[C R]

But the overall number of asylum seekers is a relative drop in the ocean in comparison to the overall population. It is also another instance of the length of the decision making process impacting on cost. If we can get decisions done faster then there's less likelihood of these people requiring medical or dental care. Cutting back on resources for determining applications in order to look like you are being tough is a big false economy.

 

[Stevo 666]

In what way should these number arrive?
It would make sense to provide safe ways to enter the country. Apart from anything it would put a lot of people-smugglers out of business.

What number would that be?

An application while still outside the country would make a lot of sense, given that most would be in a safe country (France) when doing so.

 

[Stevo 666]

What sort of smell are you thinking of here?

Then smell of rotting teeth?

 

[Stevo 666]

Don’t know on the hotels but I doubt anyone is risking their lives coming here to be put up in the old pub 200m from me along with people just released from prison. It’s not exactly The Ritz. As pointed out the bill is far higher than it needs to be because the ‘tough on immigration’ Tories cut the number of staff processing applications. They also sounded a huge amount on the Rwanda scheme that could have been used to build specialist facilities in their 14 years in charge.

As for health and dental care, surely they’re just basic human rights? The totals will be a drop in the ocean compared to the NHS budget.

I wasn't talking about rights, I was talking about cost. And clearly the lower the numbers entering the UK this way, the lower the cost. Charity begins at home, as they say.

 

[C R]

I wasn't talking about rights, I was talking about cost. And clearly the lower the numbers entering the UK this way, the lower the cost. Charity begins at home, as they say.

 

[Pross]

As I have said before (numerous times) I am not "anti-immigrant", it is the failure to effectively "get the message out" which alarms me, and, the consequent rise of Farage types. There is a significant proportion of the population who see immigration as a problem, telling them that it is a "drop in the ocean" does not address the issue.

Surely "getting the message out" includes putting into context the costs associated with things like providing health care to asylum seekers, making people aware of the 'benefits' they are entitled to. I'd agree that far too much media is given to the likes of Farage spouting their bile without calling them up and fact checking their claims, it becomes seen as fact especially as many are looking for reasons to justify their natural aversion to immigrants of any type. There are plenty of indiginous lazy feckers that we are supporting too and whilst they may occasionally get Daily Mail readers frothing at the mouth it's nothing compared to what is directed at asylum seekers.

 

[Pross]

I wasn't talking about rights, I was talking about cost. And clearly the lower the numbers entering the UK this way, the lower the cost. Charity begins at home, as they say.

It's such a shite saying though, charity should begin with those most in need. I'd rather pay taxes towards supporting someone who has had to flee their homeland and leave everything they own behind than some feckless Brit who refuses to make the most of the opportunities provided by being born in a wealthy and safe country.

 

[matticus]

Stevo 666 said:
Charity begins at home, as they say. And furk everyone else.

It's such a shite saying though, charity should begin with those most in need. I'd rather pay taxes towards supporting someone who has had to flee their homeland and leave everything they own behind than some feckless Brit who refuses to make the most of the opportunities provided by being born in a wealthy and safe country.

Well exactly.

The phrase almost encapsulates the worst of right-wing thinking.

 

[BoldonLad]

Surely "getting the message out" includes putting into context the costs associated with things like providing health care to asylum seekers, making people aware of the 'benefits' they are entitled to. I'd agree that far too much media is given to the likes of Farage spouting their bile without calling them up and fact checking their claims, it becomes seen as fact especially as many are looking for reasons to justify their natural aversion to immigrants of any type. There are plenty of indiginous lazy feckers that we are supporting too and whilst they may occasionally get Daily Mail readers frothing at the mouth it's nothing compared to what is directed at asylum seekers.

I think we are basically on the same page, but "drop in the ocean" is not a "fact". In practice, the "man in the street" is most likely to get "cross" about immigrants when waiting in a queue for treatment at an NHS facility, and, he/she can see several "drops in the ocean" ahead of him/her in the queue. This is in all likelyhood, totally irrational, but, it is how people's heads work, like it or not.

I do know a few "indigenous lazy feckers" (one of them is Son No2), but, surprised to see such sentiments on here and not from "the usual suspects".