Starmer's vision quest

[briantrumpet]

I never was on bike radar.

Indeed, but those of us who were have long memories of who got free passes.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Indeed, but those of us who were have long memories of who got free passes.

Yeah but it was only a piece of cake.

 

[briantrumpet]

Yeah but it was only a piece of cake.

Yes, but those awful socialists demanded a slice without wanting to pay for it.

 

[Dorset Boy]

But Brian, plenty were happy to be very vocal to criticise any 'dodgy' doing by a Tory, but seem to have remained remarkably quiet about the dodgy stuff done by the present PM and members of his cabinet. That's part of the hypocrisy being pointed out.

 

[Psamathe]

But Brian, plenty were happy to be very vocal to criticise any 'dodgy' doing by a Tory, but seem to have remained remarkably quiet about the dodgy stuff done by the present PM and members of his cabinet. That's part of the hypocrisy being pointed out.

For me there is a very significant difference between the "free gifts" and setting up your own affairs to pay minimum tax.

The companies and organisations giving politicians free gifts are not acting out of generosity (our capitalist system requires them to act only in the interest if their shareholders). They are seeking influence, wanting those receiving politicians to look favourably on their desires (in effect "buying something) - and buying influence from those in power is not democratic.

Whereas legally organising your tax affairs to lower you tax bills leaves the politician no feeling of gratitude to any company, gives no company the opportunity to "bend their ear" (maybe off the record). It’s something everybody does.

 

[briantrumpet]

But Brian, plenty were happy to be very vocal to criticise any 'dodgy' doing by a Tory, but seem to have remained remarkably quiet about the dodgy stuff done by the present PM and members of his cabinet. That's part of the hypocrisy being pointed out.

Is there equivalence between Rayner and Zahawi, for example? That's not defending Rayner if she's done anything improper, but if eyebrows are raised in direct proportion to the sums involved, and whether actions are actually illegal or not, it might help explain the difference in outrage.

For balance, I've asked Copilot parallel questions

There’s been no shortage of controversy surrounding Conservative (Tory) ministers since 2014, with several financial scandals making headlines. Here's a rundown of some of the most notable cases:

🧾 Key Financial Scandals Involving Tory Ministers (2014–2025)​

🟠 Peter Cruddas – Cash for Access (2012, fallout continued post-2014)​

• Although the scandal broke in 2012, its repercussions lingered. Cruddas, then Tory co-treasurer, was caught offering access to the Prime Minister for donations between £100,000 and £250,000.

🟠 Robert Jenrick – “Cash for Favours” Allegations​

• As Housing Secretary, Jenrick faced scrutiny for overruling planning decisions in favor of a Tory donor, Richard Desmond, potentially saving him millions. The timing of donations raised eyebrows.

🟠 Michelle Mone – PPE Medpro Contracts​

• Baroness Mone was linked to PPE Medpro, a firm awarded over £200 million in government contracts during the pandemic. The National Crime Agency investigated allegations of financial impropriety and lobbying.

🟠 Owen Paterson – Paid Lobbying Breach​

• Found to have breached lobbying rules by promoting companies he was paid by. The government’s attempt to shield him from suspension sparked public outrage and led to a U-turn.

🟠 Rishi Sunak – Childcare Shares Investigation​

• The Parliamentary Standards Commissioner investigated Sunak over a potential failure to declare his wife's interest in a childcare firm that could benefit from government policy.

🟠 Non-Dom Tax Status – Akshata Murty (Sunak’s Wife)​

• Sunak faced criticism over his wife’s non-dom tax status, which allowed her to avoid UK taxes on foreign income. Though legal, it raised ethical questions during his tenure as Chancellor.

🟠 Matt Hancock – PPE Contracts and Lobbying​

• Beyond his affair scandal, Hancock was accused of awarding PPE contracts to associates and lobbying for companies with ties to his family.

While Labour politicians have generally faced fewer financial scandals than their Conservative counterparts in recent years, there have still been a few notable incidents and controversies since 2014. Here's a breakdown of key cases:

💼 Notable Financial Scandals Involving Labour Politicians (2014–2025)​

🟥 “Cash for Access” – Bloomberg Donation Controversy (2024)​

• Labour leader Keir Starmer, Shadow Chancellor Rachel Reeves, and other senior figures met privately with Bloomberg representatives shortly after a £150,000 donation from a Bloomberg subsidiary.
• The meeting offered Bloomberg an “exclusive dive” into Labour’s financial services policy, raising concerns about preferential access for donors.

🟥 Expenses and Allowances Scrutiny​

• While not always rising to the level of scandal, several Labour MPs have faced criticism over housing allowances, travel expenses, and second home claims.
• These cases often echo the broader concerns from the 2009 expenses scandal, though post-2014 examples have tended to be more isolated and less severe.

🟥 Lobbying and Corporate Influence​

• Labour frontbenchers have been scrutinized for close ties to lobbying firms, especially as the party has sought to rebuild relationships with the business sector.
• Events facilitated by lobbying firms—such as Sovereign Strategy—have drawn attention for their potential to shape policy in exchange for access.

Apparently some people have lucrative careers involving giving best advice to avoid paying more tax than they need to.

 

[Psamathe]

Apparently some people have lucrative careers involving giving best advice to avoid paying more tax than they need to.

Depending on your circumstances on a personal basis Capital Gains tax is actually not particularly difficult to legally avoid. My suspicion is loopholes deliberately included by wealthy politicians so they/their mates get to not lose too much to it. Strange how ghe loopholes only ever seem to exist gor those more wealthy individuals and all closed to tje less well off.

 

[pinkbikini]

But Brian, plenty were happy to be very vocal to criticise any 'dodgy' doing by a Tory, but seem to have remained remarkably quiet about the dodgy stuff done by the present PM and members of his cabinet. That's part of the hypocrisy being pointed out.

Not one committed Tory (both of them) mentioned Jeremy ‘7 Flats’ Hunt on BR. Whether it was within the interpretation of the ruling or not, they still avoided any comment. Hypocrisy exists everywhere, there’s no sense in trying to score points.

Rayner has been politically naive. Plenty here have pointed that out. And many have pointed out the dodgy stuff going on with Starmer’s govt. No need to fabricate stories.

 

[CXRAndy]

Rayner accused of chicken run to safe seat. Panicking she will lose her seat to reform come next election

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1961711267619508696?t=5Va6RixU_yGxYGaaQhg06Q&s=19

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/JamesMelville/status/1961739328922481134?t=zWnttss63NAUHrXMMuqT1A&s=19

 

[Stevo 666]

But Brian, plenty were happy to be very vocal to criticise any 'dodgy' doing by a Tory, but seem to have remained remarkably quiet about the dodgy stuff done by the present PM and members of his cabinet. That's part of the hypocrisy being pointed out.

Exactly what I was saying above. Leftie hypocrisy isn't new and free leftie passes were a frequent thing on Cake Stop.

 

[Stevo 666]

You mean "shock horror, Tory MP has broken no laws, camplied with all tax laws, etc.". I don't see the news in that and maybe the country is in such a mess as "done nothing wrong" seems more important than the economic and social collapse we seem to be watching. A slow motion car moving to cliff where nobody wonders about the brakes because which station the radio us tuned to is seen as more important.

It wouldn't be presented like that on here.

As an interesting aside, one possible reason for Rayner's most recent house purchase is that she is running scared of Reform and is looking to grab a safe seat for the next GE:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/08/30/rayner-accused-of-plotting-chicken-run-to-safe-seat/

 

[Stevo 666]

Apparently some people have lucrative careers involving giving best advice to avoid paying more tax than they need to.

it wouldn't be so lucrative if there wasn't such a high demand for it. Maybe taxes are too high for some and those blokes in the pub in that simple to understand tax allegory might benefit from them being lower 😉

 

[CXRAndy]

You can clearly see why people want to avoid tax.

Just look at the wasted money spent by government