Starmer's vision quest

[AndyRM]

Why should a sporting event or supporters be interrupted/banned, just because it's an Israeli club

Two tier stuff innit?

Russia (amongst others) have been sanctioned for years at numerous sporting events.

But Israel's cool.

 

[CXRAndy]

Two tier stuff innit?

Russia (amongst others) have been sanctioned for years at numerous sporting events.

But Israel's cool.

Israel isn't the initiating aggressor.

 

[secretsqirrel]

"[Mahmood] knew Jewish football fans were being banned from a UK stadium, and did nothing," Badenoch says.

Badenoch fanning the flames as usual, could she not just have said ‘Tel Aviv fans‘.

 

[BoldonLad]

Maybe this is just me, but has anybody else noticed that politicians are increasingly using the phrase ''and this is personal to me'' in order to be more persuasive?

Is it not the privilege of MPs to be elected as the representatives of their constituents?

Is it not the case that those with a personal interest are required to recuse themselves in order to avoid a conflict of interests?

Starmer does have an interest in this. He is married to a Jewish woman. His children being are raised in the Jewish tradition. All of which is obviously fair enough.

Whether he is bringing his home and family life to work or not, the fact that the allegation can be made, should require him to recuse himself from the situation? Otherwise doesn't this open another line of 'they're all in it for their own interests'?

Interesting point. That could mean a lot of MPs recusing themselves from various topics, immediately, catholics and abortion or assisted dying spring to mind, but, I am sure there are many more.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Why should a sporting event or supporters be interrupted/banned, just because it's an Israeli club

Israel is engaged in illegal occupation, a system of apartheid, the brutal slaughter of tens of thousands of civilians, and its prime minister is wanted for war crimes.

Israel deserves to be isolated from the rest of the world for what it has done and what it continues to do. That means denying it the opportunity to sports-wash its behaviour in any way. Beyond sport, it should be isolated economically and culturally so long as it maintains its persecution of Palestinians.

 

[CXRAndy]

I disagree, they entered into miltary conflict after October 7th.

Just because the were more casualties on the Palestinian side doesn't mean the rest of your statement is correct.

There is no outrage for these conflicts


View: https://x.com/NJBeisner/status/1948945066292294064?t=jUiobyrEZptpSoU2ejbBUA&s=19


Why can't Israel defend itself or take retribution

 

[monkers]

Interesting point. That could mean a lot of MPs recusing themselves from various topics, immediately, catholics and abortion or assisted dying spring to mind, but, I am sure there are many more.

Private Landlords Bill?

 

[Bromptonaut]

Anybody who thinks conflict in around Gaza began at 07-10 needs their bumps felt.

 

[Ian H]

I disagree, they entered into miltary conflict after October 7th.

Just because the were more casualties on the Palestinian side doesn't mean the rest of your statement is correct.

There is no outrage for these conflicts


View: https://x.com/NJBeisner/status/1948945066292294064?t=jUiobyrEZptpSoU2ejbBUA&s=19


Why can't Israel defend itself or take retribution

Why can't the Palestinians defend themselves against the, often lethal aggression they've experienced since 1948 and before?

 

[CXRAndy]

Anybody who thinks conflict in around Gaza began at 07-10 needs their bumps felt.

I didn't say it started then, it escalated.

“2,200 American servicemen killed at Pearl Harbor — we go on to kill 3.5 million Japanese, including 100,000 in one night. 2,800 Americans in 9/11 — we go on to kill 400,000 people in Afghanistan and Iraq. We weren’t accused of genocide.

If Mexico had elected a jihadist cartel to run their country and they incurred into Texas, and on a per capita basis killed 35,000 people, a population of the University of Texas, and on the way back, took the freshmen class at SMU hostage and hid them under tunnels, what would we do? It’d be the great Sonora radioactive parking lot.

But Jews are not allowed, and Israel is not allowed to prosecute a war. And they are prosecuting a war more humanely than we have done.

The ratio of combatants to civilians — of civilian death to combatant mortality — is lower than it was in Mosul, lower than it was in Japan, lower than it was in Germany.

So there’s just a different standard for Jews and Israel when it comes to prosecuting a war. They’re allowed to fight back to a truce.

But unlike America or any other Western nation that is attacked as viciously, they're not allowed to win a war. It's a double standard.”

 

[CXRAndy]

Why can't the Palestinians defend themselves against the, often lethal aggression they've experienced since 1948 and before?

They can, if they want to. They spent billions on preparing for conflict


But can't bleat about being panned after Oct 7. They got what they deserved

 

[monkers]

I didn't say it started then, it escalated.

“2,200 American servicemen killed at Pearl Harbor — we go on to kill 3.5 million Japanese, including 100,000 in one night. 2,800 Americans in 9/11 — we go on to kill 400,000 people in Afghanistan and Iraq. We weren’t accused of genocide.

If Mexico had elected a jihadist cartel to run their country and they incurred into Texas, and on a per capita basis killed 35,000 people, a population of the University of Texas, and on the way back, took the freshmen class at SMU hostage and hid them under tunnels, what would we do? It’d be the great Sonora radioactive parking lot.

But Jews are not allowed, and Israel is not allowed to prosecute a war. And they are prosecuting a war more humanely than we have done.

The ratio of combatants to civilians — of civilian death to combatant mortality — is lower than it was in Mosul, lower than it was in Japan, lower than it was in Germany.

So there’s just a different standard for Jews and Israel when it comes to prosecuting a war. They’re allowed to fight back to a truce.

But unlike America or any other Western nation that is attacked as viciously, they're not allowed to win a war. It's a double standard.”

Lethal action from a state military force against civilians is not ''a war'' it is terrorism. When that same state declares it has the intention and the means to kill everyone in a region, and demonstrates that, that is not the process of settling a dispute, that is genocide.

If a terrorist group such as HAMAS state an ambition to kill everyone in a country or region such as Israel, and that country has the means to defend itself, then it should use the rights and military capacities to defend itself ie shoot down incoming missiles.

Using the starvation of a human population as a means to eliminate a people - that is a reprehensible act - a crime against humanity.

Perhaps as a SPAD to government following the Salisbury Novichok poisoning you would have advised an all out nuclear attack on the entire population of Russia? Or maybe not. Maybe you would have thought about consequences.

My criticism here is that you exhibit no ability to consider what is a proportionate response.

 

[CXRAndy]

I haven't seen everyone been killed. I saw very well fed starving Palestinians just the other day

Hiding amongst civilians, take uniforms off, hide in schools, hospitals and camps.

Its war, bloody, people die

There are no quotas to death counts

 

[glasgowcyclist]

I disagree, they entered into miltary conflict after October 7th.

Just because the were more casualties on the Palestinian side doesn't mean the rest of your statement is correct.

There is no outrage for these conflicts


View: https://x.com/NJBeisner/status/1948945066292294064?t=jUiobyrEZptpSoU2ejbBUA&s=19


Why can't Israel defend itself or take retribution

I disagree, they entered into miltary conflict after October 7th.

Just because the were more casualties on the Palestinian side doesn't mean the rest of your statement is correct.

There is no outrage for these conflicts


View: https://x.com/NJBeisner/status/1948945066292294064?t=jUiobyrEZptpSoU2ejbBUA&s=19


Why can't Israel defend itself or take retribution

Their apartheid system alone is justification for their exclusion.

Do you accept (or deny) that there is a system of apartheid enforced in Israel?

 

[CXRAndy]

Their apartheid system alone is justification for their exclusion.

Do you accept (or deny) that there is a system of apartheid enforced in Israel?

How can there be when vast numbers of Palestinians work in Israel