Starmer's vision quest

[CXRAndy]

Stevo couldn't do a better job of making Labour totally toxic to the people who should be voting for it. Whoever it is 'on the inside' who's actually doing this must be on Reform's payroll.

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Best bit of news from Labour- can they pull it off?

Doubt it without withdrawing from echr, repealing the human rights act and creating new British orientated legislation

 

[BoldonLad]

Any comment on all the horrific murders by white UK nationals? Or does one horrific murder by a black man justify treating all migrants as criminals?

Is the fact that we have indigenous low life’s, a reason to import more?

 

[Pblakeney]

Is the fact that we have indigenous low life’s, a reason to import more?

No. But we need more equal outrage.

 

[BoldonLad]

No. But we need more equal outrage.

I have no problem with that 😊

 

[briantrumpet]

Is the fact that we have indigenous low life’s, a reason to import more?

No, but but unless you stop *all* immigration, some wrong 'uns are going to arrive, white and black, and systems should be there to screen them and filter them out.

For context, there were 570 murders in the UK in 2024.

 

[PurplePenguin]

And here's the Folkestone MP who's saying essentially the same as me:

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Do you think Syrian refugees should now return home if their country is deemed safe?

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

Do you think Syrian refugees should now return home if their country is deemed safe?

No. Who decides if a country is safe? What if a volatile country stabilises and then civil war breaks out a year later? There are so many variables as to make it nigh on impossible to come up with a satisfactory set of criteria to return a person. If you grant someone refugee status it should be accepted as permanent, not conditional (this is just my opinion obviously).

 

[briantrumpet]

Do you think Syrian refugees should now return home if their country is deemed safe?

I'm not against all discussion of what might be sensible and practical modifications of refugee policies, but Mahmood's knee-jerk and apparently gleeful adoption of Reform's xenophobic policies in reaction to transitory polling, without recognising and championing the essential contributions that migrants overall make to the UK, is the wrong way to have a sensible discussion.

 

[BoldonLad]

No, but but unless you stop *all* immigration, some wrong 'uns are going to arrive, white and black, and systems should be there to screen them and filter them out.

For context, there were 570 murders in the UK in 2024.

Are the systems there to “screen” arrivals?

 

[briantrumpet]

Are the systems there to “screen” arrivals?

No, mostly because the Tories broke the system either by accident or design.

 

[CXRAndy]

Are the systems there to “screen” arrivals?

Not if you arrive on a pallet or rubber dinghy rapids.

 

[midlandsgrimpeur]

I'm not against all discussion of what might be sensible and practical modifications of refugee policies, but Mahmood's knee-jerk and apparently gleeful adoption of Reform's xenophobic policies in reaction to transitory polling, without recognising and championing the essential contributions that migrants overall make to the UK, is the wrong way to have a sensible discussion.

I find her piece in the Guardian today particularly disingenuous.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-asylum-reform-secure-borders-shabana-mahmood

She states that genuine refugees travel through safe countries to get here, implying they should stop in the first safe country. There is no legal requirement for them to do so, and I am sure she knows perfectly well people have a destination country, as they usually have some form of familial or historic link to that country.

Reference to some people actually being economic migrants. Again, this is true but we have an Asylum process that is designed to identify these people and they will be turned down on such grounds so it is an irrelevant argument.

Also points to over 100,000 people living in accommodation whilst waiting for their application to be processed at the taxpayers expense. Again true, but as has been discussed on here many times this is a processing problem which is the fault of successive Tory govts deliberately creating this.

Difficult to have a sensible discussion when our politicians continually evade the true context of the asylum process and immigration in general.

 

[briantrumpet]

Government responses so far (Tory and Labour) have been like if instead of fixing a water leak in your house, you decided to buy a new bucket and complain about how all your carpets and furniture are always wet, and blaming the water.

I might have missed out the bit about Tories having taken a hacksaw to the mains pipe, because they wanted to show how awful water is, as it makes things wet.

 

[briantrumpet]

I find her piece in the Guardian today particularly disingenuous.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-asylum-reform-secure-borders-shabana-mahmood

She states that genuine refugees travel through safe countries to get here, implying they should stop in the first safe country. There is no legal requirement for them to do so, and I am sure she knows perfectly well people have a destination country, as they usually have some form of familial or historic link to that country.

Reference to some people actually being economic migrants. Again, this is true but we have an Asylum process that is designed to identify these people and they will be turned down on such grounds so it is an irrelevant argument.

Also points to over 100,000 people living in accommodation whilst waiting for their application to be processed at the taxpayers expense. Again true, but as has been discussed on here many times this is a processing problem which is the fault of successive Tory govts deliberately creating this.

Difficult to have a sensible discussion when our politicians continually evade the true context of the asylum process and immigration in general.

Indeed. This is just repeating the lies told by Johnson onwards through Patel, Braverman and Jenrick, and simply validates Reform's xenophobia. It's not an honest, measured discussion. It's simply "Immigration (to the UK, at least) and immigrants are bad. We must stop it."

 

[CXRAndy]

The echr has been weaponised to allow every scumbag to stay even after committing horrific crimes.

The UK needs to withdraw from ECHR