Starmer's vision quest

[Psamathe]

Interesting idea. Possibly throw in electoral reform as well? Two things that could also dictate the political future of the country, as if both went ahead, you would likely kill off Reform in the process.

My impression is that electoral reform to most "reformed" systems ie abandoning First Past The Post would help the smaller parties break the hold of Labour & Conservatives and thereby give eg Reform better prospects. Can't see Labour doing that, particularly when Reform are riding high in the polls and have been perceived by Labour as a massive "threat".

 

[Dorset Boy]

My impression is that electoral reform to most "reformed" systems ie abandoning First Past The Post would help the smaller parties break the hold of Labour & Conservatives and thereby give eg Reform better prospects. Can't see Labour doing that, particularly when Reform are riding high in the polls and have been perceived by Labour as a massive "threat".

Exactly. On FPTP, Reform could win very few seats, coming second in a large number.
With PR, they would be the largest party.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Interesting idea. Possibly throw in electoral reform as well? Two things that could also dictate the political future of the country, as if both went ahead, you would likely kill off Reform in the process.

From what I’ve seen of Burnham I think some sort of Westminster reform might be in order, he is not a big fan of London centric government.

 

[First Aspect]

My impression is that electoral reform to most "reformed" systems ie abandoning First Past The Post would help the smaller parties break the hold of Labour & Conservatives and thereby give eg Reform better prospects. Can't see Labour doing that, particularly when Reform are riding high in the polls and have been perceived by Labour as a massive "threat".

Indeed. It would also neuter separatism within the UK.

Given the polling, I don't understand why only the Lib Dems have this as a policy.

 

[Psamathe]

Maybe, given that in the UK PMs don't stay in post long, maybe it's time to return more powers, more policy to Parliament. Maybe the PM should be more of an administrator managing the implementation of the wishes of our elected representatives. Less of what has become increasingly the case where PM determines policy and expects Parliament to rubber stamp his/her wishes.

And were that the case then maybe they'd last in post longer as when things don't go as public wants then it's their elected representatives to blame rather than one individual very very few actually got the opportunity to vote for (or against).

 

[spen666]

even Starmer’s closest allies and supporters will accept that he was very much at fault. No modern prime minister has looked so well-suited to the job on paper and been so fundamentally inept in practice.

I thought this quote from the Guardian was interesting

 

[Dorset Boy]

 

[icowden]

With PR, they would be the largest party.

However that wouldn't neccessarily be a problem.

According to NowCast, Reform would win 171 seats. To form a majority government they need 326 seats.
So, they go cap in hand to the Tories - but they only have 119 seats. That's 290 seats. They still can't enact any stupid legislation.

In the meantime, Labour (122), Lib Dem (82) and Green Party (109) could form a coalition with 313 seats and hope that more moderate conservatives would be inclined to side with them or approach the SNP for a full rainbow coalition with a majority.

The problem with Reform is that even the Tories may not want to work with them, and the other parties definitely wouldn't.

 

[C R]

I thought this quote from the Guardian was interesting

The reality is that many people on this very thread predicted that Starmer would end up like this. Why the political correspondents didn't is probably worth more discussion, and part of why this country is in the situation it is.

 

[briantrumpet]

Bernal, a Professor of Politics at UEA, is well to the left of me, but his commentary on Starmer is spot on this morning.

I'd add that the other dishonesty was the crap about learning lessons from Gorton & Denton. He had no intent about changing course.

 

[C R]

In the meantime, Labour (122), Lib Dem (82) and Green Party (109) could form a coalition with 313 seats and hope that more moderate conservatives would be inclined to side with them or approach the SNP for a full rainbow coalition with a majority.

However, that requires a left looking labour, I just don't see it happening, I think a national unity government by Conservatives and labour "to keep the extremists away" would be more likely. And the extremists to keep away would be plaid, SNP and greens, not reform.

 

[secretsqirrel]

Bernal, a Professor of Politics at UEA, is well to the left of me, but his commentary on Starmer is spot on this morning.

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I'd add that the other dishonesty was the crap about learning lessons from Gorton & Denton. He had no intent about changing course.

Agree with most of that, however I think waiting ‘years’ to scrap the 2 child benefit cap is a bit of an exaggeration. Even if the Starmer premiership has felt like a lifetime.

Also he kept us out of a stupid war, Farage or Badenoch would have had us marching straightaway.

The final bit about brexit is the nail on the head.

 

[icowden]

However, that requires a left looking labour, I just don't see it happening, I think a national unity government by Conservatives and labour "to keep the extremists away" would be more likely. And the extremists to keep away would be plaid, SNP and greens, not reform.

Couldn't happen as Labour and Tories don't have enough seats to form a majority. They would have to also link with Lib Dems (Romania Coalition).

The only workable majority would be Broad Left (Lab / Green / Lib Dem / SNP) with Plaid, a progressive alliance (same but without Plaid) or Romania Coalition

https://www.nowcast.uk/home/pr-calculator

 

[secretsqirrel]

However, that requires a left looking labour, I just don't see it happening, I think a national unity government by Conservatives and labour "to keep the extremists away" would be more likely. And the extremists to keep away would be plaid, SNP and greens, not reform.

Plaid are not very extreme.

 

[C R]

Plaid are not very extreme.

That's my point. The establishment consider plaid, greens and SNP extreme, but not reform.