The economics of staying fed....

[farfromtheland]

It's the supermarkets that dictate terms...
Unless you can bypass that bottleneck of 'control' via marketing direct - which of course requires another level of complexity, and workload, you're a bit stuffed for other market options.

Many of those smaller specialist growers have given up because the returns just weren't there, it's not worth the hassle.

The Rochdale Principles were excellent. Pity the 'Co-op' ditched them for a bigger share of profit pie, and sold most of its land. Any chance small and medium scale farmers could spark a regeneration of co-operation from the source?

 

[mudsticks]

The Rochdale Principles were excellent. Pity the 'Co-op' ditched them for a bigger share of profit pie, and sold most of its land. Any chance small and medium scale farmers could spark a regeneration of co-operation from the source?

Well we already are, in many and various ways



There's many more csas, bread, cheeses, meat clubs, online farm shops, veg box schemes, cooperative marketing ventures, community markets, food hubs, local growing schemes, landsharing and food sovereignty work going on



Lots of grassroots stuff, and campainging.



It's just under reported, and undersupported as yet by defra and their ilk



Thankfully more and more food citizens are seeing these alternatives as a legitimate and fair trade way to access good nutrition.



It's still quite hard to reach those who most need this food, on the whole , but there's lots of creative effort being made to overcome these issus



And to get beyond the idea that it's all just a niche middle class concern



But the supermarkets and the big players still have major dominance, and lobbying power of course and they'll not give up their market share, or profiteering without a fight.

 

[BoldonLad]

..........
But the supermarkets and the big players still have major dominance, and lobbying power of course and they'll not give up their market share, or profiteering without a fight.

I don't quite understand why the supermarkets have to give up their market share and/or "profiteering"?.

If consumer demand was predominantly for food of a particular (improved/superior) type, surely, the logical thing for the supermarkets to do would be:

1. Demand their suppliers produce food of that type
2. Supply the consumer demand
3. make profits as before, since their (the supermarket) presumably would still have advantages of scale

Isn't the problem that Consumer Education(?)* is required to wean them off so called junk food?

* not sure "Education" is the right word, but, couldn't think of an alternative

 

[mudsticks]

I don't quite understand why the supermarkets have to give up their market share and/or "profiteering"?.

If consumer demand was predominantly for food of a particular (improved/superior) type, surely, the logical thing for the supermarkets to do would be:

1. Demand their suppliers produce food of that type
2. Supply the consumer demand
3. make profits as before, since their (the supermarket) presumably would still have advantages of scale

Isn't the problem that Consumer Education(?)* is required to wean them off so called junk food?

* not sure "Education" is the right word, but, couldn't think of an alternative

I don't quite understand why the supermarkets have to give up their market share and/or "profiteering"?.

If consumer demand was predominantly for food of a particular (improved/superior) type, surely, the logical thing for the supermarkets to do would be:

1. Demand their suppliers produce food of that type
2. Supply the consumer demand
3. make profits as before, since their (the supermarket) presumably would still have advantages of scale

Isn't the problem that Consumer Education(?)* is required to wean them off so called junk food?

* not sure "Education" is the right word, but, couldn't think of an alternative

You've not read my posts??

The supermarkets are already overdemanding, and pay so little for fresh produce, including milk, and meat that farmers and growers make barely any margin.

Many of those farmers are subsisting on EU payments, that are going to be phased out on in the next few of years.

On average 8p in the £1 shelf price goes to the primary producer.

But because of the nature of fresh food, and limited marketing options elsewhere, farmers have little choice but to sell to these extractive middle men


If they supermarkets can get it cheaper imported they will.
Even if it's produced to lower standards.

This is will be even more so the case in if we make trade 'deals' with the States, letting in lower standard commodites than is acceptable in the EU

Improving nutrition in the population as a whole is another matter.

As is addressing food. poverty.

Although these last two can be linked and affected, by how the producer and consumer access each other.

 

[Fab Foodie]

Meanwhile, good food is going to waste.....

https://www.theguardian.com/busines...-call-for-summit-on-worsening-pig-cull-crisis

 

[BoldonLad]

You've not read my posts??

The supermarkets are already overdemanding, and pay so little for fresh produce, including milk, and meat that farmers and growers make barely any margin.

Many of those farmers are subsisting on EU payments, that are going to be phased out on in the next few of years.

On average 8p in the £1 shelf price goes to the primary producer.

But because of the nature of fresh food, and limited marketing options elsewhere, farmers have little choice but to sell to these extractive middle men


If they supermarkets can get it cheaper imported they will.
Even if it's produced to lower standards.

This is will be even more so the case in if we make trade 'deals' with the States, letting in lower standard commodites than is acceptable in the EU

Improving nutrition in the population as a whole is another matter.

As is addressing food. poverty.

Although these last two can be linked and affected, by how the producer and consumer access each other.

I have read your post(s).

My point is, Supermarkets (indeed any retailer) has to supply what consumers want.

I agree, consumers MAY have been manipulated by advertising etc etc. If consumers demand quality, sustainable, fresh food, then, that is what retailers (including supermarkets) will have to provide, otherwise, consumers will not buy it.

Hence my comment that Consumer attitudes need to change.

 

[mudsticks]

I have read your post(s).

My point is, Supermarkets (indeed any retailer) has to supply what consumers want.

I agree, consumers MAY have been manipulated by advertising etc etc. If consumers demand quality, sustainable, fresh food, then, that is what retailers (including supermarkets) will have to provide, otherwise, consumers will not buy it.

Hence my comment that Consumer attitudes need to change.

Yup consumer attitudes need to to change.

In fact I'd go so far as to say our whole attitude to food, and nutrition needs to change.

What we eat and who gets properly fed, how food comes into existence, who does that work, should be one of the most important things in our life.

For health, and social life, and long term sustainability of society, and the life systems that sustain us all..

Currently it's not like that, not by a long shot...

But you'll have to excuse me for a while, I'm currently trying to maintain my own 'life system' by avoiding getting run over by a tram..

I really like Manchester, such friendly people - but , it does make me feel like a bit of a country mouse...

 

[farfromtheland]

Isn't the problem that Consumer Education(?)* is required to wean them off so called junk food

It's not the so called junk food that's the problem, though. It's the distance produce travels.

As I said a while ago, I know two small traders put out of business by supermarkets. One in particular a wholefoods shop undercut by the new Sainsburys who discontinued many wholefoods lines afterwards. That's their basic model.

Even the Co-op stopped selling organic wholemeal bread - I was unable to persuade them that it drew in more customers who bought more other stuff. Stock control is by a centralised algorithm that just measures each line's turnover.

Then the advertising budget a large supermarket can wield can practice dissemination on a political scale.

 

[Ian H]

I have read your post(s).

My point is, Supermarkets (indeed any retailer) has to supply what consumers want.

I agree, consumers MAY have been manipulated by advertising etc etc. If consumers demand quality, sustainable, fresh food, then, that is what retailers (including supermarkets) will have to provide, otherwise, consumers will not buy it.

Hence my comment that Consumer attitudes need to change.

Regulation of supermarkets needs to be a lot tighter.

 

[mudsticks]

It's not the so called junk food that's the problem, though. It's the distance produce travels.

As I said a while ago, I know two small traders put out of business by supermarkets. One in particular a wholefoods shop undercut by the new Sainsburys who discontinued many wholefoods lines afterwards. That's their basic model.

Even the Co-op stopped selling organic wholemeal bread - I was unable to persuade them that it drew in more customers who bought more other stuff. Stock control is by a centralised algorithm that just measures each line's turnover.

Then the advertising budget a large supermarket can wield can practice dissemination on a political scale.

For sure..

So much economic, and lobbying power, because of the amount of 'value' extracted from the commons..

A little vignette..

My younger son who's a fully paid up
(but not paid much ) 'systems change' guy , was earning enough money to pay his rent in Glasgow (where he lives) by setting up a
'Look everyone, our Fruit and Veg is Great" display for mssr Sainsbury's n co in the Green Zone at the COP.

He then joined me in the 'farmers bloc' to help call for fundamental systems change, in UK and global agriculture to help combat, (and prepare for) climate change.

Who gets to speak?
Who gets the control,?

Well it's not hard to see..

Regulation of supermarkets needs to be a lot tighter.

The grocery code adjudicator is supposed to do this , to see 'fair dealing'

They don't.

But in happier news I didn't get run over by a tram 😎

 

[farfromtheland]

Regulation of supermarkets needs to be a lot tighter.

I think another approach is to tax air miles and shipping via fuel taxes that are set aside for climate reparation work. Bring it on up gradually, but seriously, for regions to adapt to a very limited export/import market altogether.

 

[mudsticks]

A hefty carbon tax on industry and consumers, that is returned directly to the population.

Thereby smoothing out inequality , and really boosting low carbon investments and lifestyle.

Imagine our government being brave enough to do this..

The oil lobby won't like it though..

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...on-tax-popular-give-the-profits-to-the-people

 

[Ian H]

But in happier news I didn't get run over by a tram 😎

The Edinburgh ones are quite nice, in a white elephant kind of way.

 

[matticus]

As I said a while ago, I know two small traders put out of business by supermarkets. One in particular a wholefoods shop undercut by the new Sainsburys who discontinued many wholefoods lines afterwards. That's their basic model.

Yes.

These discussions always feature someone (@BoldonLad ? ) preaching how great the Free Market is ; but it should be pretty obvious that it has many failings. That's why we have (imperfect) anti-monopoly laws.

 

[qigong chimp]

The local Morrisons;

Half an aisle of fruit and veg swaddled in plastic. Half an aisle of dyed animal flesh swaddled in plastic. Some aisles of booze. An aisle of salt and fat in combination. An aisle of sugar and fat. An aisle of sugar, salt and fat. Bottles of sugar. Jars of fat. Tubs of salt.

Outside acres of concrete providing 'free' parking: non-driving customers invisibly subsidising drivers.

I'm all lost in the supermarket...

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZw23sWlyG0