The economics of staying fed....

[BoldonLad]

Well exceptions tend to be the lesser/fewer of any group, so by deduction, most would seem appropriate....

Whatever you say.

 

[Ian H]

Meanwhile I have the first spring onions to get sown.. 🌱🌱🌱🌱🌱

Peripheral to the topic (but spring onions reminded me): Two of my customers, large food producers, both supplied Sainsbury's. I was told by one of them (in Swansea, TC could probably work out who*) that Sainsbury's examined their books regularly and suggested cost-saving measures (to increase Sainsbury's profits, not the company's). The Swansea co bought his spring onions from a Midlands farmer, they had a good long-term relationship, he bought the entire crop. Sainsbury's suggested he could buy in greater bulk more cheaply by combining with the London supplier, which would mean dumping the farmer. When the MD said he couldn't store more, they responded saying they'd thought of that and he could lose a couple of parking spaces and put a refrigerated container there. He told me he'd refused. But there were other pressures, including random special offer price reductions which the co had to bear the brunt of. It struck me as a totally cut-throat business.
*according to a friend at the Job Centre they had a poor reputation as an employer.

 

[farfromtheland]

Peripheral to the topic (but spring onions reminded me): Two of my customers, large food producers, both supplied Sainsbury's. I was told by one of them (in Swansea, TC could probably work out who*) that Sainsbury's examined their books regularly and suggested cost-saving measures (to increase Sainsbury's profits, not the company's). The Swansea co bought his spring onions from a Midlands farmer, they had a good long-term relationship, he bought the entire crop. Sainsbury's suggested he could buy in greater bulk more cheaply by combining with the London supplier, which would mean dumping the farmer. When the MD said he couldn't store more, they responded saying they'd thought of that and he could lose a couple of parking spaces and put a refrigerated container there. He told me he'd refused. But there were other pressures, including random special offer price reductions which the co had to bear the brunt of. It struck me as a totally cut-throat business.
*according to a friend at the Job Centre they had a poor reputation as an employer.

Sainsbury's also forced two businesses run by friends of mine to close, one by undercutting their wholefoods prices, then discontinuing most of these foods later, the other by backroom deals with the council so that the neighbouring independent grocer couldn't get an alcohol sales licence when they moved to new premises after a housing 'regeneration'.

On a happier note, I've been involved with a couple of community meals projects using skipped and donated food, and we do have a local community growing project.

 

[mudsticks]

Peripheral to the topic (but spring onions reminded me): Two of my customers, large food producers, both supplied Sainsbury's. I was told by one of them (in Swansea, TC could probably work out who*) that Sainsbury's examined their books regularly and suggested cost-saving measures (to increase Sainsbury's profits, not the company's). The Swansea co bought his spring onions from a Midlands farmer, they had a good long-term relationship, he bought the entire crop. Sainsbury's suggested he could buy in greater bulk more cheaply by combining with the London supplier, which would mean dumping the farmer. When the MD said he couldn't store more, they responded saying they'd thought of that and he could lose a couple of parking spaces and put a refrigerated container there. He told me he'd refused. But there were other pressures, including random special offer price reductions which the co had to bear the brunt of. It struck me as a totally cut-throat business.
*according to a friend at the Job Centre they had a poor reputation as an employer.

Yup the multiple buyers and other processors have primary producers pretty much nailed down.

Contracts cut margins very narrow, the 'offers' that supermarkets offer are worn by the producer .

But once you've got perishable stuff to sell then it's a buyer's market right??

And who else can you sell to if you have a lot of crop but to the 'big boys'.

If you've specialised and mechanised in one or two sorts of crop - which of course has been promoted as the 'modern way' then you'll have seasonal spikes in labour requirements..

Who services those seasonal labour needs??

Seasonal workers, who are fast skilled and efficient, but don't need (or even want) all year round work..

Where are those workers now ?

Back in Europe, of course, working for better money, under better conditions - good for them..

So that's left the primary producers at the (very small) mercies of the multiples..
And struggling for skilled labour.

The supermarkets, and large processors, were always the biggest part of the problem, now we've brexitted it's just made everything even more difficult, for farmers and growers.

All predicted of course, repeatedly...

But who was listening , I mean farmers they're coining it right,??

 

[mudsticks]

Sainsbury's also forced two businesses run by friends of mine to close, one by undercutting their wholefoods prices, then discontinuing most of these foods later, the other by backroom deals with the council so that the neighbouring independent grocer couldn't get an alcohol sales licence when they moved to new premises after a housing 'regeneration'.

On a happier note, I've been involved with a couple of community meals projects using skipped and donated food, and we do have a local community growing project.

Even though I sell direct, my prices are still pegged to a certain extent by the supermarkets, people will predictably compare.

And that benchmark is very low, it doesn't reflect the actual cost of producing good nutritious food .

It's really good to see more community kitchens springing up all over, especially when they're using food that would otherwise go to waste.

But in many ways like foodbanks they're helping people out of a hole deliberately dug by austerity measures.

.

 

[farfromtheland]

It's really good to see more community kitchens springing up all over, especially when they're using food that would otherwise go to waste.

But in many ways like foodbanks they're helping people out of a hole deliberately dug by austerity measures.

That's not how I see it - community meals are a great thing in themselves. Talking, sharing work, saving on gas, planning other interesting things...

 

[mudsticks]

That's not how I see it - community meals are a great thing in themselves. Talking, sharing work, saving on gas, planning other interesting things...

Oh for sure, don't get me wrong, I'm not doing down the idea or practice of community eating or growing, or socialising even.
That's a big part of my life.

It's more when people are having to do this to feed people who wouldn't otherwise get to eat a decent meal.

 

[Milkfloat]

But who was listening , I mean farmers they're coining it right,??

The ones around me must be, you could not move for Pro-Brexit signs in their fields during the campaign, surely they all got what they wanted?

 

[mudsticks]

The ones around me must be, you could not move for Pro-Brexit signs in their fields during the campaign, surely they all got what they wanted?

Well some did get sucked in by the idea that farming support would be better tailored to the UK specific situation post brexit, yes .

I know a few who did that with the best of honourable intentions - ones who wanted to see better farming practices being promoted, and relocalised protected markets for uk produce.

They are now bitterly regretting that decision - not just for the effect on themselves but on society as a whole.

Like any other bunch of people it would seem they fell for the easy lies, over the more complex truths about the CAP and our EU membership.

Surveys since have suggested that farmers voted in/out in the same proportions as the rest of the population.
maybe the 'innies' just didn't feel brave enough to put up sign boards ?? i don't know...

The NFU advised voting remain.

 

[BoldonLad]

Well some did get sucked in by the idea that farming support would be better tailored to the UK specific situation post brexit, yes .

I know a few who did that with the best of honourable intentions - ones who wanted to see better farming practices being promoted, and relocalised protected markets for uk produce.

They are now bitterly regretting that decision - not just for the effect on themselves but on society as a whole.

Like any other bunch of people it would seem they fell for the easy lies, over the more complex truths about the CAP and our EU membership.

Surveys since have suggested that farmers voted in/out in the same proportions as the rest of the population.
maybe the 'innies' just didn't feel brave enough to put up sign boards ?? i don't know...

The NFU advised voting remain.

Isn't the NFU generally regarded as the Union of the "big boys" of Farming, not the small producers?

 

[mudsticks]

Isn't the NFU generally regarded as the Union of the "big boys" of Farming, not the small producers?

Generally speaking yes.

They've certainly not done much to support smaller farmers over the years - I'm not a member for one.

But the 'vote remain' call was best for any sized farm on the whole - but then I would say that wouldn't I.??

 

[BoldonLad]

Generally speaking yes.

They've certainly not done much to support smaller farmers over the years - I'm not a member for one.

But the 'vote remain' call was best for any sized farm on the whole - but then I would say that wouldn't I.??

Well... as a "Remain" voter, I would say it too

 

[mudsticks]

Well... as a "Remain" voter, I would say it too

It's close getting to 'kerching' status - your having to repeatedly remind us how you voted..

Almost starting to wonder if he "doth protest too much"

 

[steve292]

This is purely anecdotal, but make of it what you will. When I was growing up in Pembrokeshire, on some of the farms I shot over the maincrops were spuds, cabbages and cauliflowers. Tescos were the main buyers of the brassicas. One of the farms used to sell over the farm gate to the public, and it was popular, so much so that they converted an old pigsty to a "shop " with a honesty box. The Tesco buyer saw this, and lo and behold a letter was sent to the farms telling them to stop selling direct or Tescos would not buy the crops from them.

 

[mudsticks]

This is purely anecdotal, but make of it what you will. When I was growing up in Pembrokeshire, on some of the farms I shot over the maincrops were spuds, cabbages and cauliflowers. Tescos were the main buyers of the brassicas. One of the farms used to sell over the farm gate to the public, and it was popular, so much so that they converted an old pigsty to a "shop " with a honesty box. The Tesco buyer saw this, and lo and behold a letter was sent to the farms telling them to stop selling direct or Tescos would not buy the crops from them.

Sounds familiar.
It's the same old too much power in too few hands.
The multiple buyers have a stranglehold on their producers.

The story that 'The EU' regulated shapes and sizes of veg that could be sold was for the most part false.

It's the supermarkets that dictate terms.

Still do.

And cause a lot of wastage , via gradeouts of perfectly edible produce


Unless you can bypass that bottleneck of 'control' via marketing direct - which of course requires another level of complexity, and workload, you're a bit stuffed for other market options.

Many of those smaller specialist growers have given up because the returns just weren't there, it's not worth the hassle.

Before or after brexit.

A big shame as skills are being lost