The NCAP Soccerball Thread

[newfhouse]

The fact that person A is offended at the use of a particular number because they cast meaning on it does not mean the person displaying that number is committing a crime.

Is there not an assumption in law that words or phrases - and maybe the numbers being discussed here - are subject to a widely shared understanding? Otherwise couldn't you defend yourself against a public order or harassment charge by claiming that your speech was intended to convey your own peculiar meaning and not the one understood by the complainant?

You're probably right that it would be hard to convict on the basis of wearing that shirt alone. My prediction is NFA.

 

[matticus]

Is there not an assumption in law that words or phrases - and maybe the numbers being discussed here - are subject to a widely shared understanding? Otherwise couldn't you defend yourself against a public order or harassment charge by claiming that your speech was intended to convey your own peculiar meaning and not the one understood by the complainant?

You're probably right that it would be hard to convict on the basis of wearing that shirt alone. My prediction is NFA.

Totally agree.

It's like people that claim "Ah, but I was being ironic!" when 12,000 people complain about their clearly racist/homophobic comment in the public media. People need to take responsibliity for their words and deeds, and I believe the law supports that position. Otherwise there would be no convictions for harm/offence unless you actually laid hands on a person, and that isn't the case (eg. you can Assault someone just by yelling at close quarters)

 

[spen666]

Nah...you chose to leave those words out.
You'd near enough have to have been living under a rock to not get the connection.I reckon there's hardly a football fan or person that only has a slight interest in football that doesn't know what that shirt meant.

97 not enough or not enough 97 or however you want to spin it being worn on a shirt at a football match between Manchester United and Manchester City is not EVIDENCE of any offence, unless there is more to this.

You are ASSUMING what the shirt means. If it said for example 97 scousers not enough. That would be a different matter or if it was displayed at a game v Liverpool then you may have a case.

I know 97 people were killed at the Hillsborough disaster. That does not mean the shirt refers to that, and more importantly, it is for the prosecution to prove it did refer to that. At present the evidence revealed does not show this


PS on a slightly different note, my spell check wants to change the word "scousers" to scourers!

 

[deptfordmarmoset]

I am afraid, I have no idea what the point you are trying to make here is

I am not assuming any numbers are under my control. I have no control over the numbering system.
The fact that person A is offended at the use of a particular number because they cast meaning on it does not mean the person displaying that number is committing a crime.

The mere use of a number is not a crime. A number can have a significance for one person that is different from the significance for another person.
The issue here is whether a criminal offence has been committed and on the evidence available publicly so far, there is nothing to make out the offence

I am not saying numbers or numbering systems are under your control; I'm saying that using a set sequence of numbers - 666 or 97 - will automatically have significance within communities, namely 666 in a (post-)Christian society and 97 within a footballing context. And there's little you can do about it.

 

[AndyRM]

97 not enough or not enough 97 or however you want to spin it being worn on a shirt at a football match between Manchester United and Manchester City is not EVIDENCE of any offence, unless there is more to this.

You are ASSUMING what the shirt means. If it said for example 97 scousers not enough. That would be a different matter or if it was displayed at a game v Liverpool then you may have a case.

I know 97 people were killed at the Hillsborough disaster. That does not mean the shirt refers to that, and more importantly, it is for the prosecution to prove it did refer to that. At present the evidence revealed does not show this


PS on a slightly different note, my spell check wants to change the word "scousers" to scourers!

It very obviously does reference Hillsborough, and the fact that it was on the back of a Man Utd shirt is so glaringly obvious that it's an offensive/inflammatory gesture I have no idea why you're trying to suggest otherwise. The wearer will rightly get done for whatever he's charged with.

I'm looking forward to reading about whatever alternative connotation you've come up with for 666. That'll be about as flimsy as whatever the lawyer defending someone wearing a "Not Enough 97" top can come up with, I assume.

 

[matticus]

I've been wearing this shirt since I recevied it on last year's birthday. I don't understand, but lots of people are amused by it, so that's nice:

 

[matticus]

I am not saying numbers or numbering systems are under your control; I'm saying that using a set sequence of numbers - 666 or 97 - will automatically have significance within communities, namely 666 in a (post-)Christian society and 97 within a footballing context. And there's little you can do about it.

It would be like throwing the word Nigger around, and claiming it's just the name of a dog in a movie about dams.

 

[newfhouse]

I've been wearing this shirt since I recevied it on last year's birthday. I don't understand, but lots of people are amused by it, so that's nice:
View attachment 3995

That's not the adjoining neighbour, he's from the house over the road.

 

[matticus]

In Hell, everyone's a pedant or a know-it-all.

Revelations 3.11

 

[newfhouse]

In Hell, everyone's a pedant or a know-it-all.

Revelations 3.11

I see your dangling bait and I can’t resist. It’s the Book of Revelation, as every HMHB fan knows.

 

[matticus]

It’s the Book of Revelation, as every HMHB fan knows.

And they say the Devil has the best tunes. pah!

 

[cookiemonster]

Ya beauty!!!!!!!

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOEmwuhLjJc


The reaction of the Scottish commentators when the winner went in is brilliant.

Now that's a magnificent, and rare, sight.

 

[AndyRM]

Ya beauty!!!!!!!

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOEmwuhLjJc


The reaction of the Scottish commentators when the winner went in is brilliant.

View attachment 4068

Now that's a magnificent, and rare, sight.

Steve Clarke is an actual genius.

 

[cookiemonster]

Steve Clarke is an actual genius.

I would put him up there with Aberdeen manager, Barry Robson, who took Aberdeen, TWICE, when the team were on their back, and turned them around.

 

[Deleted member 49]

Ya beauty!!!!!!!

View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOEmwuhLjJc


The reaction of the Scottish commentators when the winner went in is brilliant.

View attachment 4068

Now that's a magnificent, and rare, sight.

Careful you don't get a nosebleed up there.😲