The role of gender and words...

[FishFright]

@mudsticks usually deals better with this sort of thing than most.

 

[BoldonLad]

@mudsticks usually deals better with this sort of thing than most.

Well, IMHO, at least she/they is/are qualified to have a view

 

[slowmotion]

The female fishermen of North America were fighting a heroic rear-guard action against this "progress".

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/282120272_Should_we_call_them_fishers_or_fishermen

 

[Deleted member 28]

@mudsticks usually deals better with this sort of thing than most.

Not really much to deal with is there, we used to create Female names for jobs and now we don't.
I dare say if someone 'slips up' and uses the old terminology in the company of someone who disaproves of the reference then said 'slipperupper ' will be informed, until then a bird who acts is an actress in my book.

 

[icowden]

until then a bird who acts is an actress in my book.

I think the correct term is performing animal?

 

[mudsticks]

Having a gendered word for an occupation does have the benefit of imparting extra information succinctly.

It also has the disbenefit of imparting all sorts of gendered assumptions, and unhelpful unconscious biases.

@winjim has it about right

Roles having genders attached to them, conciously or unconsciously also affects peoples thinking speech and behaviour.

The fact that we trip up on our words, it feels clunky, or as one poster opined (it's 'a chore') when we try to be gender neutral, only serves to shine a light on the biases .

We all have them, the biases.

And we can't really hope to make* full progress to a more equal society until we recognise these biases

Same of course goes for all the other intersectional work* we need to do around class, racism, ableism, transrights etc etc

*I'm fully aware that many people are not interested, or are even in fact actively hostile to the idea of social progress towards a more truly equal society.

They are quite happy with the status quo as it favours them right now, or else they're uncomfortable with the idea of change and progress, all in all.

That's because male is the default gender, which is something we need to move past and is, to my mind, the whole focus of this debate.

@mudsticks usually deals better with this sort of thing than most.

Thanks for the vote of confidence FF

I'm not really convinced of the usefulness of my chiming in here, people who are already in on board with this necessary 'work' are already doing their best

Other posters will just want to have their 'fun' rubbishing, ridiculing and dismissing the PC gawn mad, 'wokeists' so what's the point,??

I'm not sure I've got the energy to bother with all that, I have more fertile ground to work .

An interlude ..

On a personal level.

I am very much a cis gendered woman with a broad range of 'trad womanly' attributes-

However you might define those.

Meanwhile a lot of my life has been spent pursuing 'trad male' occupations , and activities, farming , machinery operation, setting up and running businesses, buying and developing land.
Being a union rep. .

I've travelled a lot in wild country, solo by bike, on foot, camping and hitchhiking,

Not infrequently it has been suggested or at least inferred that these might not be suitable activities for a 'lady' or else that my capabilities in these areas might be lacking in some way, this questioning has been due to my gender.. Not anything else.

Fwiw I'm competent enough at all of them, even quite successful in many.

I was lucky enough to have an upbringing that promoted, gender equality, even if society still lags behind that ideal

Gendered language still subtly, or unsubtly gatekeeps certain activities.

Usually I find the people who are most insistent that 'gendered language doesnt matter' are also the ones who rubbish the idea of changing it.

Why is that??
Might it require a degree of thoughtfulness?

Might it require the effort of listening, and changing??

Why resist change, if this old fashioned language has no effect, why be so keen to retain it??

On a personal note,

I run Landworking skillshare weekends here at the farm for women, and non binary people.

I'm still surprised at how even the youngsters are relieved to get away from what can be quite blokey attitudes, around knowledge sharing.

Greater, confidence is built by many things, but language can very much help or hinder.


When I first arrived at CC it was assumed for the first year or so that I was a guy..

Based on my occupation, biggish bike, and the fact that I mostly tour solo, I guess.

It was interesting how attitudes towards me changed, once it became apparent that I am female.

Anyhow, not sure, what if anything is gained by these meanderings, but there you go anyhow..

 

[winjim]

only exception I can think of is midwife, which I don't recall ever having a male version

The 'wife' in midwife is the pregnant person.

 

[BoldonLad]

The 'wife' in midwife is the pregnant person.

Excellent reason for not having a male version (in the case of humans)

 

[Fab Foodie]

The 'wife' in midwife is the pregnant person.

P'raps use Midperson, just in case....

 

[slowmotion]

P'raps use Midperson, just in case....

.....or "the mid" ??

 

[theclaud]

Context, as ever. There are various liberal and rationalist reasons for favouring gender neutral language, especially for describing things or for generic usages, which are sometimes persuasive and sometimes not, and there is the usual hysterical backlash whenever language change aimed at some form of equality is advocated. But much more interesting is the fact that we can choose our words, and therefore we have the power to make interventions in meaning, especially by choosing words that draw attention to themselves. Shep intuitively grasps this with her use of 'bird' above.

 

[swansonj]

I'm just biding my time time before venturing the opinion that "granny gear" is an unhelpful sexist piece of language. 😀

 

[Ian H]

I'm just biding my time time before venturing the opinion that "granny gear" is an unhelpful sexist piece of language. 😀

It has already happened, though whether it denigrates grannies, or the rider with a very small third cog, I'm not sure (I'm the proud owner of two bikes with triples).

 

[BoldonLad]

It has already happened, though whether it denigrates grannies, or the rider with a very small third cog, I'm not sure (I'm the proud owner of two bikes with triples).

Is language which denigrates ANYONE acceptable ? just a thought.

 

[winjim]

I'm just biding my time time before venturing the opinion that "granny gear" is an unhelpful sexist piece of language. 😀

It has already happened, though whether it denigrates grannies, or the rider with a very small third cog, I'm not sure (I'm the proud owner of two bikes with triples).

I'm sure I remember that conversation already happening on CC a while back.