The role of gender and words...

[winjim]

@swansonj it was you!

https://www.cyclechat.net/threads/granny-gear-and-sexism.233918/

Edit: I've just skimmed through it and the thread did descend into a proper train wreck, the likes of which I think we're trying to avoid on the new! and improved! forum...

 

[slowmotion]

Is language which denigrates ANYONE acceptable ? just a thought.

Life would be pretty boring if it wasn't.

 

[slowmotion]

I'm not sure which wise group is supposed to draw the line between "denigrate" and "strongly criticise", and anyway, maybe it doesn't matter. Some people are entirely worthy of denigration.

 

[farfromtheland]

Having a gendered word for an occupation does have the benefit of imparting extra information succinctly.

This point has already been well answered. I'll add that it sometimes cuts the other way - men who are nurses have been called 'male nurses' by default and been rightly unhappy with that. At present I am a temp 'postperson' - 'postie' is possible here. I think we'll need to use 'person' in job titles for a while before it settles in, but it can.

I'll also say that I'd appreciate the title Ms. becoming default, rather than a bone of contention speaking to people in call centres and so on. I have no wish for my irrelevent marital status to be part of my name.

I am a big fan of using the singular 'they' as a pronoun - it is already common parlance when one doesn't know the sex of the person and doesn't sound awkward.

'Good girl' and 'good boy' as terms of praise are tendentious given that we live in a world where many people do make assumptions about gender-appropriate behaviour.

 

[Ian H]

Is language which denigrates ANYONE acceptable ? just a thought.

I think you'd be on sticky ground denigrating entire groups of people. A particular individual, on the other hand, might just deserve it.

 

[swansonj]

I'm sure I remember that conversation already happening on CC a while back.

Funnily enough, I'm sure I remember it too

 

[BoldonLad]

I think you'd be on sticky ground denigrating entire groups of people. A particular individual, on the other hand, might just deserve it.

Indeed, they may, but, as @slowmotion has already said "which wise group decides" ?

 

[swansonj]

Anyone with the slightest shred of awareness can see that the language we use affects how we think about something. What is fascinating (and depressing) is how hard some people try to deny that.

 

[swansonj]

Anyway, to return to the thread's main theme, or something vaguely related to it, ponder the meaning of the following:

"As for man, he is no different from the rest. His back aches, he ruptures easily, his women have difficulties in childbirth."
"A work of art is beautiful because a man did it."
"Englishmen prefer tea to coffee. Englishmen prefer blondes."
"I suppose any normal American would rather sit with his wife in a public place than apart from her."

 

[Deleted member 28]

What is fascinating (and depressing) is how hard some people try to deny that.

Do they?

What makes you think people deny anything, have you ever considered some might think it's ridiculous?

 

[Ian H]

Indeed, they may, but, as @slowmotion has already said "which wise group decides" ?

Who's talking about groups, wise or unwise?

 

[Xipe Totec]

Do they?

What makes you think people deny anything, have you ever considered some might think it's ridiculous?

It's plainly self-evident that many people do think that way, it doesn't need any consideration.

The issue is that on the whole, such people appear to be incapable of entertaining the remotest hint of a possibility that they might be wrong.

 

[BoldonLad]

It's plainly self-evident that many people do think that way, it doesn't need any consideration.

The issue is that on the whole, such people appear to be incapable of entertaining the remotest hint of a possibility that they might be wrong.

 

[BoldonLad]

Who's talking about groups, wise or unwise?

Well, I thought that was covered in my post, but, groups, or individuals, wise or unwise, if you prefer.

 

[mudsticks]

Anyone with the slightest shred of awareness can see that the language we use affects how we think about something. What is fascinating (and depressing) is how hard some people try to deny that.

Well of course, it's obvious that our language affects our thinking.

We think using our language, yes?.

So our thoughts are bound to be affected by our language, the words we express ourselves with, in turn reflect our thoughts.

It barely needs stating surely



The nature, extent, and depth of peoples thoughts on a matter, are highly apparent from peoples spoken or written vocabulary, on here and elsewhere.

But all this social gendered language stuff is highly nuanced, and contextualised as Claude, and others say.

It's not straightforward, and for progress to be made, it requires a discussion to take place in good faith, and mutual trust.

So is there much likelihood, of a useful advancement of understanding, or awareness to be made on here??

Hmmn, despite being a generally optimistic sort, I wouldn't be massively hopeful on all that..