The UK’s broken asylum system

[BoldonLad]

As you know it's easy to get into a polarised situation where anything 'they' say is untrue and everything 'we' say is an indisputable fact.

I have no hard evidence but understand that the absence of documents that securely establish identity is not unusual, either because the home country does not issue them, or because it is advantageous to have some uncertainty
.

Indeed

 

[Rusty Nails]

Could you explain to me why it makes a difference to the Landlord if their income is provided directly from Government vs from the earning income (or indeed, investment income, or pension) of the tenant?

Quite simple really. Guaranteed income for a high volume of properties, at a set rate (often quite high) over an agreed period, without the landlord having to find and replace tenants, is worth a lot to the landlord.

 

[BoldonLad]

Quite simple really. Guaranteed income for a high volume of properties, at a set rate (often quite high) over an agreed period, without the landlord having to find and replace tenants, is worth a lot to the landlord.

Yes, I got that, are you a Landlord then?

But, in situation with a housing shortage, the Landlord can set higher rents, if they wish, especially if all of these asylum seekers/migrants are working hard and earning, indeed the Landlords can probably go "up market" and charge even higher rents.

Of course, then, we will have to subsidise the Hotel Industry, which has just lost a captive market and now has lots of empty rooms.

 

[newfhouse]

Could you explain to me why it makes a difference to the Landlord if their income is provided directly from Government vs from the earning income (or indeed, investment income, or pension) of the tenant?

What? Those providing rented accommodation for asylum seekers are not, in the main, ordinary domestic landlords. Those that are will be contracted by middle men whose only motive is profit. No, it's hotel owners that are having the best of it. Many have laid off staff too, since there is no expectation of normal hotel services continuing.

I predict the next Tory sleaze scandal to emerge and be minimised in the right wing press will be another story of no-tender contracts via murky companies with links to ministers.

 

[Rusty Nails]

How do you feel about Ukranians coming here, Shep?

Should we send them back too?

Or is it that their skin colour is the crucial difference that makes them acceptable?

There's no need for any to come here, there's enough 'safe' countries between here and Ukraine.

Shep can't reply at the moment, he's at a scooter rally in Royston Vaysey.

 

[BoldonLad]

What? Those providing rented accommodation for asylum seekers are not, in the main, ordinary domestic landlords. Those that are will be contracted by middle men whose only motive is profit. No, it's hotel owners that are having the best of it. Many have laid off staff too, since there is no expectation of normal hotel services continuing.

I predict the next Tory sleaze scandal to emerge and be minimised in the right wing press will be another story of no-tender contracts via murky companies with links to ministers.

No matter how many links in the chain, the money is still being paid.

Yes, I had already mentioned the Hotel Owners, before seeing your post, I wouldn't bet against you on that one.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Yes, I got that, are you a Landlord then?

But, in situation with a housing shortage, the Landlord can set higher rents, if they wish, especially if all of these asylum seekers/migrants are working hard and earning, indeed the Landlords can probably go "up market" and charge even higher rents.

Of course, then, we will have to subsidise the Hotel Industry, which has just lost a captive market and now has lots of empty rooms.

No, but I understand basic business issues. Businesses love security of income especially big businesses.

Your second two sentences make no sense if you understand my first sentence. When they first arrive it is obvious that "all of these asylum seekers/migrants" will not be able to work hard, earning, especially while they have a long wait to be accepted or refused. Unless you are arguing that landlords should be encouraged to charge asylum seekers/migrants exorbitant rents.

Why will we have to subsidise the hotel industry? They have made a business decision to accommodate asylum seekers rather than leisure/business users so can reverse that decision.

 

[BoldonLad]

No, but I understand basic business issues. Businesses love security of income especially big businesses.

Your second two sentences make no sense if you understand my first sentence. When they first arrive it is obvious that "all of these asylum seekers/migrants" will not be able to work hard, earning, especially while they have a long wait to be accepted or refused. Unless you are arguing that landlords should be encouraged to charge asylum seekers/migrants exorbitant rents.

Why will we have to subsidise the hotel industry? They have made a business decision to accommodate asylum seekers rather than leisure/business users so can reverse that decision.

Before you joined in, the assumption was (by me at least) that the application system was fixed and applicants were processed with days, so, they would be quickly on a plane "home", or, into the UK jobs market.

There may actually be a lag in income while switching from one market to another. More (or different) staff may have to be recruited. Any excuse for a subsidy.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Before you joined in, the assumption was (by me at least) that the application system was fixed and applicants were processed with days, so, they would be quickly on a plane "home", or, into the UK jobs market.

There may actually be a lag in income while switching from one market to another. More (or different) staff may have to be recruited. Any excuse for a subsidy.

The principles behind my post still stand.

It is a huge assumption, and totally unrealistic, that the process will be 'fixed' any time soon and it will never take just a 'few days'.

You have suddenly magic'ed up a new subsidy.

 

[BoldonLad]

The principles behind my post still stand.

It is a huge assumption, and totally unrealistic, that the process will be 'fixed' any time soon and it will never take just a 'few days'.

You have suddenly magic'ed up a new subsidy.

I accept that, but, the discussion was that, if the people were here, no matter if they have been processed or not, then, they would need accommodation, and, therefore, the flow of money to the providers of said accommodation (even if it was a barge) would continue. The only difference may be the source of said money, ie, direct from Government (or Local Authority) or from the income of the accommodated person,

Depends on your definition of "any time soon", I suppose. In practice, I don't disagree with you. It depends on what the reason(s) are for the low processing rate. If, as suggested by another poster, it is because Officers have been instructed to be "extra meticulous", and thus slower, then, presumably this can quickly be reversed. if, on the other hand, it is, for example, the lack of documentation held by new arrivals, this is a more difficult circle to square.

On the subsidy, I hope you are correct, but, we will have to wait and see, the hotels have not been emptied of migrants... yet

 

[newfhouse]

migrants

Asylum seekers.

 

[theclaud]

Asylum seekers.

Unfortunately also a label loaded with negative associations, thanks mainly to the Blair govt. I prefer to go with 'refugees', irrespective of official status, for anyone who has come here in hope of a better life.

 

[stowie]

Immigration and asylum is one of those topics where strong opinions are held and it is deemed a big issue, but very few seem to bother doing even the most rudimentary reading on the actual system, process and laws.

Tories are whipping up the issues to distract from the total cluster fark they have made of pretty much everything since the brexit vote. I expect it to get worse as we approach the election.

 

[multitool]

Immigration and asylum is one of those topics where strong opinions are held and it is deemed a big issue, but very few seem to bother doing even the most rudimentary reading on the actual system, process and laws.

Tories are whipping up the issues to distract from the total cluster fark they have made of pretty much everything since the brexit vote. I expect it to get worse as we approach the election.

Welcome to culture war, where everything is make believe.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Welcome to culture war, where everything is make believe.

Very true.