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matticus

Guru
It may be defined somewhere, but as I said, the bar for being 'in the public interest' is lower than many people think.

You keep saying this ... but it seems your definition so far is "what Pale Rider thinks is OK." Surely you have something more concrete? Me and Monkers have both had a go, and we're not even vaguely employed in the business; this is your big chance to shine!
 

matticus

Guru
Clearly, you cannot libel or invade the privacy of someone who is not named.

You say this, but it is clearly what has happened - Edwards' private life has been dragged into the public sphere, to the dis-benefit of him and his family. Do you have a legal definition to prove that they cannot be judged responsible? It seems that in the Court of Public Opinion they are very much guilty as charged.

[I'd view it as negligent conduct, actions that could easily be foreseen to lead to these events.]
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
You keep saying this ... but it seems your definition so far is "what Pale Rider thinks is OK." Surely you have something more concrete? Me and Monkers have both had a go, and we're not even vaguely employed in the business; this is your big chance to shine!

Do you really think I'm going to bother to properly research anything for you with that attitude?

Learn some basic manners and you might learn something else.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
It may be defined somewhere, but as I said, the bar for being 'in the public interest' is lower than many people think.

But the more I think about it, public interest is irrelevant because the original stories were anonymous.

Clearly, you cannot libel or invade the privacy of someone who is not named.

All the stories I've seen, including in the other newspapers, did not name Edwards until after he coughed the job.



What has the number of posts got to do with it?

You will either be able to say someone is wrong on the internet or not, but for an illustration of my difficulties, see below.



Oh dear, monkers, that is the so called whistleblower's act which only applies to individuals who may want to disclose private information in the course of their whistleblowing.

Or put another way, it does not apply to newspapers.

I've seen plenty of others make similar mistakes when relying on Google Law, which is one reason why I will never quote an Act unless I am absolutely nailed on certain it is the correct one.

I'm fully aware PR of the purpose of the act, but the basic principles remain.

I guess it's natural that you wish to protect the reputation of yourself and your colleagues, but as unpopular with you as it may be, the public think that press hacks are scum because they keep showing us their character.

I also acknowledge that Mosley was not successful in his bid to the ECtHR with regard to pre-notification. He did have other successes of note though regarding the invasion of his privacy.

Sex scandal and further legal issues​

In 2008, Mosley won a court case (Mosley v News Group Newspapers) against the News of the World newspaper which had reported his involvement in what they said was a Nazi-themed sex act involving five women, on the grounds that it had breached his privacy. Justice Eady ruled that, despite one of the attendees wearing a military uniform, there were no Nazi connotations to the orgy.[140][141] As a result, in 2009 Mosley brought a case (Mosley v United Kingdom) against the UK's privacy laws in the European Court of Human Rights, in a bid to force newspapers to warn people before exposing their private lives so they could have the opportunity to seek a court injunction. The case was rejected by the court on 10 May 2011 as they argued that a "pre-notification requirement would inevitably affect political reporting and serious journalism."[142]

In July 2011, The Daily Telegraph reported that Mosley was financially guaranteeing the court costs of claimants who may have been subjected to phone hacking by the News of the World. Mosley refused to comment at the time, but he later gave a television interview to the BBC and a telephone interview to Reuters where he confirmed the story.[143]

Mosley launched legal action against Google, in an attempt to stop searches from returning web pages which use the photographs from the video used for the News of the World story.[144] On 6 November 2013, in Mosley v SARL Google, a French court sided with Mosley and ordered Google to prevent its search engine from providing links to images of Mosley engaging in sexual activities from the video. The Register suggested the ruling would lead to a Streisand effect, increasing interest in the images, which are still findable through other search engines.[145] At the Leveson Inquiry, Mosley stated his reasons for pursuing Google:

the fundamental point is that Google could stop this material appearing but they don't, or they won't as a matter of principle. My position is that if the search engines – if somebody were to stop the search engines producing the material, the actual sites don't really matter because without a search engine, nobody will find it, it would just be a few friends of the person who posts it. The really dangerous things are the search engines.[146]
Mosley launched similar legal action against Google in Germany. In January 2014, the German court also ruled against the American company.[147] In giving its verdict, the court stated, "that the banned pictures of the plaintiff severely violate his private sphere."[148]

In an interview with Der Spiegel following the judgement, Mosley said: "Strictly speaking Google has got to obey German courts in Germany and French courts in France. But in the end it has to decide whether it wants to live in a democracy. Google behaves like an adolescent rebelling against the establishment. The company has to recognise that it is a part of society and it must accept the responsibility which comes with that."[149] Mosley then launched proceedings against Google in the UK. All the cases were eventually settled in May 2015.[150]
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
I'm fully aware PR of the purpose of the act, but the basic principles remain.

No they don't, that act does not apply to newspapers.

Stop digging, before I observe all your many references to the law in the gender thread must now be treated with extreme caution.

And what Mosley has to do with the price of fish is beyond me.
 

monkers

Legendary Member
No they don't, that act does not apply to newspapers.

Stop digging, before I observe all your many references to the law in the gender thread must now be treated with extreme caution.

And what Mosley has to do with the price of fish is beyond me.
Most things seem beyond you.
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
Most things seem beyond you.

Ah, another insult masquerading as a reply, and this from someone who thinks they are so clever.

You cocked up, badly, that's nothing to do with me other than being the bearer of the glad tidings.

Not, of course, that you would ever resort to the juvenile tactic of shooting the messenger.

Oh no, that's far beneath your elevated intellect.
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
If you substitute something along the lines of 'what the paper's editor/proprietor think is OK' for your name then how far off the truth is that the case?

I'm sure you are making a genuine point, but your prose has defeated me.

Could you put it in words of one syllable that even a Sun hack could understand?
 
I'm sure you are making a genuine point, but your prose has defeated me.

Could you put it in words of one syllable that even a Sun hack could understand?

You were objecting to the way Matticus, post #421, spoke. I'm suggesting removing their personal reference to you and inserting something along the lines of 'what the paper's editor/proprietor think is OK'
 

Pale Rider

Veteran
You were objecting to the way Matticus, post #421, spoke. I'm suggesting removing their personal reference to you and inserting something along the lines of 'what the paper's editor/proprietor think is OK'

He would need to remove all references to me to qualify as anything other than ignorant.

Reply by snipe, jibe, and insult is too prevalent around here.

If I now have your meaning, ultimately, it only matters what a court thinks - if it gets that far.

No doubt The Sun, probably with the help of some swift legal advice, will have considered what risks there were in publication.

My view, and I expect theirs, is they are on pretty safe ground with an anonymous story.

Seems the other papers agreed, also following the story using no names - until such time as Edwards 'fessed up, when the goalposts very much shift.

Even the normally timid BBC named him then.

Second guessing what a court might think, months later, and after every word you've published has been raked over ad nauseum, is not a game for the faint-hearted.

Which is why you need a lot of guts to do this type of story.
 
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