Trans athletes in sport....

[Fab Foodie]

So as not to clutter other threads with this interesting yet contentious topic.

So to kick-off (see what I did there):

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-everyone-a-looser?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

 

[newfhouse]

So as not to clutter other threads with this interesting yet contentious topic.

So to kick-off (see what I did there):

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/apr/03/disputes-over-trans-athletes-must-not-make-everyone-a-looser?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Bloody Graun. A looser what?

 

[qigong chimp]

Before I risk a contribution to this thread can we get some indication of how much of a toss one should give about it?

 

[fozy tornip]

Shep to the bridge, please.

 

[Mugshot]

Before I risk a contribution to this thread can we get some indication of how much of a toss one should give about it?

Would that depend on the sport ?

 

[FishFright]

Oh here we go again

 

[qigong chimp]

Somewhere Rowan Williams writes brilliantly about the need to protect children from advertising, from the sticky-tendril blandishments of consumer capitalism. Not simply because they lack the knowledge to choose wisely between products, but because they are ill-equipped to discern the central deceit, which is that by exercising choice we might transcend limitation.

I'd like to transition to the young Gil Scott-Heron. The brother was cool. But should that ever become a medical possibility I'd have to weigh very carefully the downside. My position as Social Secretary for my local chapter of the Klan may become untenable.

 

[AuroraSaab]

So as not to clutter other threads with this interesting yet contentious topic.

So to kick-off (see what I did there):

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...-everyone-a-looser?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

The article seems like a fair appraisal. The reality is that British Cycling, and the IOC, and other sports bodies, rushed into including transwomen in the female sex category on the basis of very limited and quite poor research. Under pressure from activists and in a well meaning attempt to be inclusive they didn't think through the implications. They assumed there was no advantage when they should have waited for the science to prove this.

The obvious solution is a female category and an Open category for men, transwomen, and exceptional females (if they choose).

4 weeks ago Emily Bridges was on the podium with their male team mates getting a silver medal in the Men's category. They seemed happy enough to include Emily.

 

[theclaud]

The obvious solution

You're often saying stuff like this, but it's not really obvious, is it? It's an argument, but there are others.

 

[AuroraSaab]

What would be a fairer solution than an Open category? Bearing in mind that reducing testosterone does not mitigate the advantages of having a body that has gone through male puberty. Let's hear your solution that is both fair to women and allows transwomen to compete at the elite level.

 

[theclaud]

What would be a fairer solution than an Open category? Bearing in mind that reducing testosterone does not mitigate the advantages of having a body that has gone through male puberty. Let's hear your solution that is both fair to women and allows transwomen to compete at the elite level.

I don't have one. Sometimes, when things are complicated, it is OK to admit you don't have an Obvious Solution. I think an open category is a better idea than either a special transgender category or a blanket admission of all trans women into women's categories, but it throws up problems of its own. That's what happens when you persuade yourself that you are talking about a scientific question when actually it's a political one.

 

[Julia9054]

waited for the science

The issue is that it is very difficult to study and the sample sizes are too small. I agree that most sports bodies appear to have thrown in the towel when it comes to making difficult decisions.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The problem it mainly throws up, as far as I can see, is that an Open category prevents transwomen receiving the validation of being in the exclusive Women's sex category. As I've said before though, in sport safety trumps fairness and fairness trumps inclusivity.

 

[AuroraSaab]

The issue is that it is very difficult to study and the sample sizes are too small. I agree that most sports bodies appear to have thrown in the towel when it comes to making difficult decisions.

The research on which the IOC made its decision was very limited and mostly based on self appraisal of how transwomen felt their speed and strength had diminished over time. It wasn't objective. Even the author of that research, transwoman Joanna Harper, has rowed back on it and now says transwomen do have an advantage but it shouldn't matter if it's a small advantage.

The science which is clear is that men have physical advantages over women in sports that require explosive strength, due to the innate advantages of an adult male body. This is the science that has been ignored in favour of inclusively.

 

[newfhouse]

fairness trumps inclusivity

Can those attributes actually be measured? Who decides what is fair or is it always obvious?