Trial by jury

[First Aspect]

Withoput funding properly the criminal justoice system you do not have justice
1. Its not acceptable suspects and alleged victims can face 5 year waits for cases to be concluded
2. suspects and alleged victims have the right to expect a fair hearing
3. Without sufficient court rooms, judges and lawyers there will inevitably be backlogs increasing

the new proposals will require far more court rooms and buildings to be made available, will require far more lawyers as there will now be 3 tiers of hearings andthere will inevitably be more appeals, thus requiring more appealate court hearings.

The new system will do little to save time or money.
The cause of the problem is the chronic underfunding in all parts of the legal process. The money being put into the judicial part ie courts, trials etc has fallen in real terms massively, despite a massive increase in legal procedures and offences.

I am not sure I understand why there will be more appeals. This seems to infer that fewer jury trials will lead to more appealable verdicts. I don't know if that's correct.

I believe there is a proposal to use "nightingale" court facilities to address the backlog.and allow more sitting days. Wouldn't be surprising if that became semi permanent.

That aside, seems that you are also just asking for more money for the system. You are probably correct, but it's not something to criticise Leveson for if that recommendation wasn't available to him.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Like I said, can you come up with even one example?

i didn't ask if you could post a link to a pressure group post making allegations without and specific details of any single case.

the figures and details quoted there are unable to be verified of challenged as to accuracy as there are no details given.

Well, the Chief Inspector of Prisons disagrees with you, but what does he know…

“The Chief Inspector of Prisons, Charlie Taylor, has issued an Urgent Notification to the Secretary of State for Justice after an inspection of Pentonville uncovered a prison in a state of disarray, where many prisoners were being detained unlawfully after their release date in appalling conditions, with wholly inadequate support”. (My bold)​

Source: https://hmiprisons.justiceinspector...ir-release-date-in-chaotic-unsafe-conditions/

 

[CXRAndy]

View: https://x.com/ABridgen/status/1996493908839153847?t=Pz-DhP_DNtm7RguDqwuRqA&s=19

 

[BoldonLad]

The idea for doing this came from the Leveson review, i.e. from within the legal profession itself.

I don't know what we can really expect from our politicians if following expert advice isn't good enough.

I wasn't really querying the "expert" advice, more like thinking that the usual approach is to apply the old 80/20 rule, and go for the low hanging fruit first (in this case, the 90% of cases), it doesn't mean you cannot introduce other measures too.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'm not sure that artificial insemination will solve all our problems, but it's worth a go, I suppose, as everything else seems to have failed.

think about your prostate before making such pronouncements 😂

 

[BoldonLad]

Isn't that just terrible management? I can't help feeling that there must be a centralised technological system that could effectively keep track of all inmates' whereabouts and release dates, given that 100k isn't a huge number in data terms.

very true, seems incredible to me that they do not already have this information, in the necessary format.

 

[BoldonLad]

I'd incorporate transponders on unremovable wristbands that have to be registered a couple of times each day, maybe with facial recognition, to make sure that no-one's swapped theirs. As the technology works for e-gates at airports, it must be reliable and widespread.

isn't the perceived wisdom that Facial Recognition is racially biased?

 

[Psamathe]

It is simply poor management. At the other end of the scale prisoners are being kept in past their release date.
Incompetence through and through.

So do we trust a poor manager to propose and implement reforms? I don't.

 

[Psamathe]

The only.other proposals.from within that I have heard amount tomasling for more funding. I don't think Leveson was given that as one of the options.
...

I don't see why we can't put in more money. Over her 2 budgets Reeves has pledged £80bn of increased public expenditure, Labour have suddenly found £2+bn for an ID card scheme that experts say won't address its justification, etc. so I cannot believe there is no money to maintain justice in the UK (Reeves still didn't windfall tax the massive windfall banks are getting from UK taxpayers through QE (when eg EU has. addressed the anomaly).

 

[Pblakeney]

So do we trust a poor manager to propose and implement reforms? I don't.

Depends on what level the decisions are being made. I doubt it is at a government level. More likely to be at prison management level but I haven't looked into it that deeply. Surely prison management can put forward recommendations? An IT database might be a start, allegedly.

 

[Bromptonaut]

Like I said, can you come up with even one example?

i didn't ask if you could post a link to a pressure group post making allegations without and specific details of any single case.

the figures and details quoted there are unable to be verified of challenged as to accuracy as there are no details given.

I take your point but presumably the number compensated by MoJ for being detained too long is verifiable.

 

[AuroraSaab]

I don't see why we can't put in more money. Over her 2 budgets Reeves has pledged £80bn of increased public expenditure, Labour have suddenly found £2+bn for an ID card scheme that experts say won't address its justification, etc. so I cannot believe there is no money to maintain justice in the UK

The ID card money would be better spent on the justice system. Hadn't realised it's budgeted at £2 billion. That's mad.

 

[spen666]

I take your point but presumably the number compensated by MoJ for being detained too long is verifiable.

but is that number paid in the 10 year period or the number released - the 2 are different and its not clear what the figure is, nor is it clear how many people have been in custody in that time. 773 out of 1000 people is a lot. 773 out of 10,000,000 is a trivial figure

 

[Psamathe]

The ID card money would be better spent on the justice system. Hadn't realised it's budgeted at £2 billion. That's mad.

That's just for starters. Last time Labour tried such a scheme it was £5.3bn of our money (down the toilet) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/uk_politics/6642339.stm - and that was back in 2007 prices

 

[Pblakeney]

but is that number paid in the 10 year period or the number released - the 2 are different and its not clear what the figure is, nor is it clear how many people have been in custody in that time. 773 out of 1000 people is a lot. 773 out of 10,000,000 is a trivial figure

Is 773 more, or less, than one example?