USA Midterms....

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albion

Guru
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-attack-against-rape-case-while-on-irish-trip

“It’s the most ridiculous, disgusting story. It’s just made up,” he said

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/03/donald-trump-lawsuit-new-york-times-mary-trump
'The former president has also been ordered to pay all attorneys’ fees and legal expenses the Times and its reporters had incurred. The lawsuit alleged that the newspaper sought out Trump’s niece Mary Trump and persuaded her “to smuggle the records out of her attorney’s office”.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/04/us/politics/jan-6-proud-boys-sedition.html
Proud suckers.
 
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ebikeerwidnes

Well-Known Member
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-attack-against-rape-case-while-on-irish-trip

“It’s the most ridiculous, disgusting story. It’s just made up,” he said

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/may/03/donald-trump-lawsuit-new-york-times-mary-trump
'The former president has also been ordered to pay all attorneys’ fees and legal expenses the Times and its reporters had incurred. The lawsuit alleged that the newspaper sought out Trump’s niece Mary Trump and persuaded her “to smuggle the records out of her attorney’s office”.'

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/04/us/politics/jan-6-proud-boys-sedition.html
Proud suckers.

Sounds good - but he will find someone else to pay for it or just not pay and let them sue him and
and anyway he can always to another "Truth" on his antisocial network thing and get a loads of more donations from people who can't afford it
 

spen666

Active Member
Trump is smart. It’s no different to the Tories getting all the thick working class gammons on side.

Insulting those who you need to vote for your side to gain power is unlikely to encourage them to vote for your favoured side. Indeed behaving in such a manner could be said by some to be a great example of someone who is thick.

If your favoured views are correct, you should be able to persuade those who vote to your side by debate and not by insulting others.
People do not seemed to have learned from Brexit. It was the abuse and insults over many years towards anyone who raised their concerns about immigration and other matters that led to people voting leave. If in the years before 2016 ( not just in the referendum campaign) we had been able to debate immigration concerns without the abuse, then I am convinced people would have not voted overall to leave the EU

Insulting and abusing people turns voters away from your choice of politics. It is interesting that in Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein seem to have learned this, unlike the Unionists. Sinn Fein are reaching out to Unionists / Protestant communities and gaining votes from those communities, unlike the Unionists who still abuse verbally their opponents and speak in terms of hate
 

bobzmyunkle

Well-Known Member
If in the years before 2016 ( not just in the referendum campaign) we had been able to debate immigration concerns without the abuse, then I am convinced people would have not voted overall to leave the EU
I agree with you on that. Well almost, the bit about abuse is a bit snowflakey and makes me doubt I'd agree with the views you'd express in such a debate.
thick working class gammons
You mean thick gammons, I think.
 

spen666

Active Member
If someone will vote against their own best interests because they feel insulted, what does that make them?

Who are you to say what is in their best interests?

If you do not allow the debate to happen, then people will not be converted to your views.
The stupidity ios that many people's concerns re immigration pre Brexit was about non Europeans coming into the UK. Brexit did nothing to change that and if the debate had happened, this could have been highlighted, but terms like little Englanders and Gammons being bandied around when people raise the issue of immigration just stopped the debates happening and people became more entrenched.

Debate is not abusing and insulting people who dare express different views to yours
 

Rusty Nails

Country Member
If someone will vote against their own best interests because they feel insulted, what does that make them?

Fallible...and human. just like the people who cannot resist insulting them.
 
Fallible...and human. just like the people who cannot resist insulting them.

Of course we're all fallible (and mostly human) but that wasn't what I was responding to. Wasn't Spen's point that people voted as they did because they felt insulted? If they did, that's not terribly smart.
 

spen666

Active Member
Of course we're all fallible (and mostly human) but that wasn't what I was responding to. Wasn't Spen's point that people voted as they did because they felt insulted? If they did, that's not terribly smart.

No, that was not my point at all.

to give an example about brexit - although this could be applied to other votes.
A person (lets call him X) has concerns about the immigration situation and about the number of people coming into UK from say Asia and blames this on being in the EU . They express concerns and is called a racist or a Little Englander. or because of seeing this happen to others who have raised concerns - they do not raise their concerns. The debate about immigration does not take place.

X therefore is not disabused of his view that the EU is to blame and so at the referendum votes Leave. If the debate could have taken place without insults and abuse, then X may have realised the EU was not the problem and so would not have voted leave.

The insults and abuse prevented the debate and the exchange of views, thus educating people


This happens all the time about various issues and those especially on the left in UK do not seem to have realised they need to have the debate with people who they need to vote for them. This contrasts with Northern Ireland, where Sinn Fein have realised they need to appeal to both Unionist and Nationalists and are making big steps forward, whereas the Unionists still continue to insult and abuse those who disagree with them and as a result are fading away slowly
 
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