War with Russia

[matticus]

You missed the bit about finesse.

Oh I'm sorry - please boil your lovely nuts with rosemary, my dear chap.

 

[Ian H]

Oh I'm sorry - please boil your lovely nuts with rosemary, my dear chap.

Thank-you - that's much better.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Is it still going on?

I thought we'd all started watching the new one now.

Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan?

As I have mentioned before, to much objection, all the sharpest minds say this previously highly popular baby in this parish was always going to be an orphan. It is getting there.

 

[albion]

Viktor Orbán is certainly working against the EU pushing Hungary towards the expanding Soviet Union.

The only tiny glimmer of hope to prevent a long term full blown European war is that he was forced to abstain from the Ukraine member vote in order to get Hungary's massive development grant.
The other scary part is that a large group of Republican are using Oban tactics to support Russia. This of course is also the Trump hymn sheet.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Viktor Orbán is certainly working against the EU pushing Hungary towards the expanding Soviet Union.

The only tiny glimmer of hope to prevent a long term full blown European war is that he was forced to abstain from the Ukraine member vote in order to get Hungary's massive development grant.
The other scary part is that a large group of Republican are using Oban tactics to support Russia. This of course is also the Trump hymn sheet.

Looks like people still believe the mainstream Western narrative. Think the story goes something like this: Putin intends to recreate USSR, to roll over Eastern Europe if not beyond after conquering Ukraine. He is literally the 2nd coming of Hitler, and without Ukraine "winning" our boys will be fighting the Russian next!

Isn't it remarkable, after witnessing Zelensky from being hailed a hero to treated like a beggar, and after seeing how Western governments and media uphold the sanctity of 'human rights' and 'rules based order' in the Palestine, that such beliefs still resonate?

What exactly is so difficult to understand? Is it really so hard to stand in our perceived enemy's shoes and see security dilemma as two sides of the same coin? It is not as if the Cuban missile crisis never took place, or the Monroe doctrine is just a figment of imagination, or numerous leading political thinkers and politicians never said in no uncertain terms that NATO expansion into Ukraine was the brightest of red line to Russia, and the principal cause of the war.

It is also not as if that fact wasn't literally confirmed by the key peacemaker in March 2022, the then leading negotiator for Ukraine, and the head of NATO. Given madness is repeatedly doing the same thing but expecting different outcome, why not listen to people like Mearsheimer, who has laid all the evidence out to be challenged, instead?

Don't know whether it is sad or funny, that as pawns and sacrificial lambs living in Europe, people are still singing from their real tormentor's hymn sheet...

 

[albion]

Oban wants back unto the Russian federation. Polish voters have Lech Walelsa in heir memories to keep them from the brink whilst Finald has a very precarious border.
Serbia is a severe risk making EU peace more than a little fragile.

 

[the snail]

What exactly is so difficult to understand?

Quite. Why is it so hard for you to understand that Ukraine is a sovereign state, entitled to self determination, and to choose who it aligns with and which treaties it wishes to enter into. The cause of the war is clear, it was the rejection by Ukraine of a pro-russian government. Nato is not a threat to Russia. Before 2014 most in the west were wondering what was the point of Nato - now it is clear that without Nato membership the baltic states, Finland, Sweden, Poland are all at risk from Russia, just like Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova etc.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Quite. Why is it so hard for you to understand that Ukraine is a sovereign state, entitled to self determination, and to choose who it aligns with and which treaties it wishes to enter into. The cause of the war is clear, it was the rejection by Ukraine of a pro-russian government. Nato is not a threat to Russia. Before 2014 most in the west were wondering what was the point of Nato - now it is clear that without Nato membership the baltic states, Finland, Sweden, Poland are all at risk from Russia, just like Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova etc.

Ukraine is of course "entitled" to self determination and to choose who they align with etc.

But have you not seen the result?

I was hoping after 145 pages contributors here would have had time to chew over the issues, and be open minded and mature enough to understand geopolitics is anarchical, for the simple reason that there is no higher authority above states. Consequently countries, especially weaker countries, have to act accordingly for the welfare of their people. Shouldn't that be the primary objective of political leaders?

Clearly you do not understand what security dilemma is (do look up), and failed to address any of my associated evidence re NATO enlargement. Not sure whether it is exceptionalism or naivety that makes you fail to understand this simplest of concept - that you (or anybody but the Russian government and people) believing NATO enlargement to Ukraine is not a threat to Russia is irrelevant. As I mentioned multiple times before in this thread, numerous Western scholars and politicians have long stated it is the brightest of red lines to Russia. Where is your evidence that they were wrong? And what about the subsequent disclosures by Bennett, Arakhamia and Stoltenberg?

Regarding Russian expansion, it was Putin whom famously told fellow Russians that whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart, whoever wants it back has no brain. Obviously oblivious to those who have taken Western lies hook, line and sinker, multiple scholars have pointed out that if he had wanted to conquer Ukraine, never mind going beyond, he would not have deployed c200,000 - he would have needed 10 times more for a country of 40 million, given its size, and inevitably heavy resistance in Western (non-ethnic Russian) Ukraine.

It seems to me you are interpreting this conflict as if it was a Disney movie that is not going your way. Taking some time reading more widely with an open mind should help.

 

[Deleted member 121]

mature enough to understand

It seems to me you are interpreting this conflict as if it was a Disney movie that is not going your way.

And Record wonders why nobody takes him seriously... Although the effort in writing such long winded guff on a tiny forum which is read by about 2% of that more than makes up for it...

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

And Record wonders why nobody takes him seriously... Although the effort in writing such long winded guff on a tiny forum which is read by about 2% of that more than makes up for it...

Not so long ago you would have protested screaming and kicking when I said you all were actually cheering the warmongers in an unwinnable war at a huge self-inflicted cost. Now, not a single counter argument is made as events have demonstrated none can be made.

You could have 1) admitted it, 2) kept mum, or 3) reacted like a sore loser like you have - I am not the one who told you the porkies you believe(d) in. Can't say I am surprised.

 

[Rusty Nails]

Not so long ago you would have protested screaming and kicking when I said you all were actually cheering the warmongers in an unwinnable war at a huge self-inflicted cost. Now, not a single counter argument is made as events have demonstrated none can be made.

You could have 1) admitted it, 2) kept mum, or 3) reacted like a sore loser like you have - I am not the one who told you the porkies you believe(d) in. Can't say I am surprised.

Your condescending attitude and support for totalitarian regimes explains why you have a quote from Mencken as your signature line.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Not so long ago you would have protested screaming and kicking when I said you all were actually cheering the warmongers in an unwinnable war at a huge self-inflicted cost. Now, not a single counter argument is made as events have demonstrated none can be made.

You could have 1) admitted it, 2) kept mum, or 3) reacted like a sore loser like you have - I am not the one who told you the porkies you believe(d) in. Can't say I am surprised.

Russia assumed they would win within 3 days, how do you mean ''unwinnable'' ? Apart from that yes you don't get much responses because you repeat exactly the same arguments so if you want my response, just scroll back. i'm not gonna engage in the same discussion just because of your apparent memory loss.

 

[albion]

Most of the Russian army is now dead or injured thus, I guess, the reason for the Wagner spat.
So nearly all the current cannon fodder are draftees.

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

Your condescending attitude and support for totalitarian regimes explains why you have a quote from Mencken as your signature line.

Mencken spoke truth – how else did we end up with our beloved political leaders? As leading lights of democracy, how come US and UK are arming and shielding the slaughter of 10,000 children in broad daylight within a matter of weeks, never mind causing a million dead from waging wars in recent decades?

The fatal weaknesses of one man one vote was opined long ago by Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle.

Don’t think all totalitarian regimes are worthy of support – fwiw it is not obvious to me Russia's political institution is strong and sound, all I can see is Putin being smarter and consequently more successful than his predecessors. China on the other hand has been better led than US, UK or India for decades due to having a better system few bother to understand, and delivered outstanding results “for the people” and indeed the rest of the world (while constantly slandered by the usual suspects for obvious reasons). Calling a cat good because it catches mice irrespective of its colour doesn't make me a supporter of “totalitarian regimes”, does it?

What I find condescending is believing "we" are better than "them" when evidence indicates the opposite. What is is often not what one wants.

Russia assumed they would win within 3 days, how do you mean ''unwinnable'' ? Apart from that yes you don't get much responses because you repeat exactly the same arguments so if you want my response, just scroll back. i'm not gonna engage in the same discussion just because of your apparent memory loss.

Since you have a counter argument, I will respond.
The “3 day” assertion has long been debunked – it is American, not Russian. Do keep up.

I have only just noticed you equate quality of comments by number of responses! I thought mostly only teenage girls (and perhaps teenage boys) do that.

Most of the Russian army is now dead or injured thus, I guess, the reason for the Wagner spat.
So nearly all the current cannon fodder are draftees.

You sure you are not describing the wrong side? Given the population ratio, can't you see magic thinking is required to wish otherwise?

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Since you have a counter argument, I will respond.
The “3 day” assertion has long been debunked – it is American, not Russian. Do keep up.

I have only just noticed you equate quality of comments by number of responses! I thought mostly only teenage girls (and perhaps teenage boys) do that.

No you're seeing it wrong, instead of claiming others off seeing quality on the amount of responses while first off yourself complaining about a lack of responses maybe you should step back and take your time to take all the information in. and understand that if you created a problem by repeating the same thing over and over again, maybe you're also the only one that can solve it.


Then the 3 days thing, there are several Russian propagandist who have claimed so, but more importantly it's also evidence by the way their 2022 invasion went, the losses where so catastrophic for the Russians because they strategically assumed it would be a 3 day war. (or at the very least a short war)
Their setup was based on the incorrect assumption the Ukrainian government would very easily fall. Bit the same as other Russians invasions, all because they are afraid off Nato right?

You can pull up all conspiracy's in the world to deny this but the military tactics used simply evidence this.