War with Russia
- Thread starter Milzy
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And at the same time give away their mineral resources to the US at the same time! And then with US involved Trump might just completely change his mind tomorrow and decide he also wants their .....
Ian
Personally (and claiming no expertise) I don't think things will improve between Ukraine & Trump, probably just deteriorate irrespective of how far Zelenskyy crawls up begging eternal forgiveness from the lord & master, irrespective of who much sweet-talking Starmer & Macron do, irrespective of risks to any UK State Visit. Trump has never forgotten July 2019 when he called Zelenskyy and incriminated himself resulting in his impeachment. And Trump never forgives (not something like that anyway).
And, as others have said, Trump's "peace plan" is nothing more than Ukraine's surrender anyway, which Ukraine will never agree to.
So my view (very open change) is that best we can hope for is Europe/UK/others start focusing on how they can support Ukraine and to stop wasting time pandering to Trump as it's just distracting from what really needs to be done.
Ian
And, as others have said, Trump's "peace plan" is nothing more than Ukraine's surrender anyway, which Ukraine will never agree to.
So my view (very open change) is that best we can hope for is Europe/UK/others start focusing on how they can support Ukraine and to stop wasting time pandering to Trump as it's just distracting from what really needs to be done.
Ian
stowie
Well-Known Member
Trump doesn't have the strategic understanding to be formulating a longer plan than whatever makes him "look good" in the next week, but I think there is something dark going on in the MAGA republican elite.
I am getting more to thinking that this is about normalising relationships with Putin, removing sanctions and Ukraine just happens to be in the way. US administration is basically trying everything now to get Ukraine to crumble in order to get it out of the way.
Why any US administration is so keen to do this, and willing to jettison decades of carefully cultivated alliances to do so is beyond me.
China will be the winner here. Before there was no chance of China being instrumental to securing peace in Ukraine, indeed they are funding Russia. But they will see an opportunity to fill the gap and influence Europe. The price they will extract is big - probably mean that Europe will do no more than grumble if/when China invades Taiwan. It is a very weird world when China can be considered a more reliable country than the US for strategic interests but we are where we are. I can see a backstop with China guarantees as a (slim) possibility. China has no love with Russia and will be able to see a way to become a dominant influence on Europe foreign strategy.
I am getting more to thinking that this is about normalising relationships with Putin, removing sanctions and Ukraine just happens to be in the way. US administration is basically trying everything now to get Ukraine to crumble in order to get it out of the way.
Why any US administration is so keen to do this, and willing to jettison decades of carefully cultivated alliances to do so is beyond me.
China will be the winner here. Before there was no chance of China being instrumental to securing peace in Ukraine, indeed they are funding Russia. But they will see an opportunity to fill the gap and influence Europe. The price they will extract is big - probably mean that Europe will do no more than grumble if/when China invades Taiwan. It is a very weird world when China can be considered a more reliable country than the US for strategic interests but we are where we are. I can see a backstop with China guarantees as a (slim) possibility. China has no love with Russia and will be able to see a way to become a dominant influence on Europe foreign strategy.
stowie
Well-Known Member
I did read that maybe Trump et al. are trying "a reverse Nixon". That is to pull Russia away from China as they consider China the bigger threat.
Seems a shonky plan if that is the case. Russia has little to offer the US economically and China is definitely the very senior partner in the current relationship, plus by pissing off all the US traditional allies they open the door to more Chinese influence elsewhere which would be more of an impact than the Russia / China link.
Seems a shonky plan if that is the case. Russia has little to offer the US economically and China is definitely the very senior partner in the current relationship, plus by pissing off all the US traditional allies they open the door to more Chinese influence elsewhere which would be more of an impact than the Russia / China link.
monkers
Legendary Member
If true, a decision that can only end badly.
Edit; it isn't true.
Zelensky still wants security guarantees that haven't yet been on offer.
Last edited:
CXRAndy
Senior Member
Well, I think he's going to find out very quickly what a mistake he has made.
Multiple EU countries are already walking back from the front line so to speak. They will not send troops into war.
That leaves war monger Starmer to mount his horse and lead the charge
monkers
Legendary Member
Pfffff.
CXRAndy
Senior Member
The legacy MSM are covering it Zelenskys willingness to talk peace.
If he's going it alone or hoping for the US to come to his rescue remains unknown. I suspect this is all Starmers plans not involving USA.
My understanding is it's a framework MOT an agreement. Ukrainian MP (Zelenskyy supporter) on UK TV the other week explained that any deal needs to be ratified by the Ukrainian Government, Zelenskyy can't give away Ukrainian resources. Snd that will take time and detail and detail can't be established while more than half the resources in the deal are in regions currently controlled by Russia.
This won't be Trumpty's last tantrum.
Ian
monkers
Legendary Member
It says ''ready to return to the negotiating table'' and not ''willing to sign'' Shithead.
CXRAndy
Senior Member
Love letter from Zelensky
“Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as soon as possible to bring peace that lasts,” he reads.
“My team and I are ready to work under President Trump’s strong leadership to get a peace that lasts.
“We really do value how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its sovereignty and independence. Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it at any time that is convenient for you.”
Keep up, did you also know trans is banned in the USA for playing sport in the wrong biological category
🤣
monkers
Legendary Member
The trans stuff is irrelevant Shithead. You think you can distract by baiting techniques?
So again I have to repeat myself Shithead ...
... does not mean willing to sign the minerals extortion without security guarantees. Trump does not want to talk about security guarantees, he just says that he believes Putin when he says he will honour a ceasefire; something that Putin has agreed a few times in the past and has never honoured.
Note the reason why Zelensky does not talk about a 'ceasefire' but lasting peace because at least he understands the difference.
Meanwhile Musk must at some point start regretting his bromance with Trump as his billions disappear before his eyes. Canada are threatening a 100% tariff on anything sold by Musk.
Why are you so pleased that a European country is being extorted by a known villain?
CXRAndy
Senior Member
He has said he will sign asa Trump tells him to.
He cannot afford to wait, else Russia will over run Ukraine, when the bullets run out
You do know that if Canada did that 100% tariff would be for imported vehicles from Canada.
Canada’s automotive manufacturers assemble around 1.9 million vehicles in a year.
The automotive industry contributes around $19 to Canada’s GDP and has a revenue of over $100 billion.
The average salary in the industry is $89,400.
Only 12% of cars manufactured in Canada are sold in Canada.
Tesla sells less than 50,000 cars into Canada.
Go for it Canada
