War with Russia

[CXRAndy]

Ukraine has to pay back it's debts to USA for all the money 👍

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

With those examples, you wrote "as part of the same Russian people Russia claimed need saving as justification for the Ukraine
war".

wow you can read???

Glad you made the point yourself - that has indeed been a key, well known reason for nearly every if not every military adventure instigated by Putin, including Ukraine. How is this consistent with the West's narrative of him being expansionistic? Do we have Russians need saving? I did not refer to those examples earlier only because your arguments are so self contradictory, that they are not worthy of comment.

I'm going to try and explain this concept in an way you can understand, If Putin or any other person for that matter says he wants to save Russians but coincidently also gains some territory, then the reason it is to ''save his poeple'' is most likely an lie. His rise to power was by lying to it's own people and killing lots of chechen as revenge of a bombing he made up to be their doing.

I can't believe you continue to dig this "RT" hole. If Putin had exhibited an expansionistic streak on RT or indeed any Russian public media, would anybody with half a brain seriously believe banning RT broadcast by the West (actually just EU) would have stopped the West finding that out and broadcasting it?

I just gave you a compliment above for your apparent regained ability to read, only for it to be gone a few lines further. I said he says something else on Western media then in its' own Russian media, his expansionistic view he showed a few times for example right before those fake referendums in parts of Ukraine he then occupied. Most famous with little parts also showed in the west is the hours long ''documentary in which he shows an very old map of Russia not because he didn't have any newer but because his view is ''this is actually ours'' which becomes very clear in that documentary. (and those are not only my views) (this includes Ukraine, Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Estonia, list goes on for quite a bit.)
But also maybe listen to Gorbachev you known the one who ended the sovjet union, his interviews right before his death and how Putin responded to his death.

I do agree with your criticism on blocking the RT channels, but the western view was ''then they can't spread propaganda'' which is in this day and age of course to simplistic, but hey i never said the EU was any good. However said things ae long after that ban so unless you want to accuse the EU of banning the future that might shed something in an for them more positive light, it doesn' work that way.

Have you never heard of VPN?

if i'm litterly quoting something from long after that ban, but yes, i have multiple.

A free lead for you - do you know you can access RT.com freely by VPN into America, Asia and even Europe using the free Opera browser, e.g.? Then according to YOU, YOU should be able to offer the world's first and only expose of Putin's expansionistic streak yourself!!! Second free bonus lead - you can use google translate if you can't read Russian!!

You can thank me later!

You do not have to educate me on how to acces those sources i have most likely more knowledge on the matter then you.

Oh dear. How much Kool-Aid have you been guzzling "bro"?

To have some basic understanding of this subject, is simply not to have lived under a rock, you know, given the Chinese have flown not just the world's first, but also the second (entirely different) 6th gen fighter prototype, setting military news around the world alight a couple of months ago. Meanwhile the US 6th gen NGAD fighter concept not only has never been seen in flight, it was sent back to the drawing board in September.

No they have flown an plain they said was an 6th gen fighter, nothing they showed proofed it had half the abilities. And as we know from Russia and other Chinese projects is that if they can't show the actual abilities it simply can't do them. They just put up a show, for people like you who beleive them at face value. You known they also sell cars that look a lot like for example the Bmw X5 they claim it's even better, more luxerios etc. but if you would actually drive them(having driven the original before) you would immediately notice you're being lied too.

So I guess China has been stealing from the US what the US doesn't have. Right?

As if that is not bad enough, do you not know Elon Musk has opined loudly that the F35 programme you seem to be a fanboy of should be shut down pronto? And that it is common knowledge they are unreliable, expensive, and behind the time in utility, just like the vast majority of American gears?

Do keep up!

I said the Chinese stole the F35 blueprints and made an worse version of it(which is an totally different project then their ''gen6'' ) I never said i was fan of the F35, just that the chinese copy was performing not as good as the original. (not my opinion there are several sites who analyse military ariplanes who came to this conclusion, along with the conclusion that the gen6 aircarft is most likely fake.[/QUOTE]

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

You can attempt to deflect your butthurt state of questioning of avatars all day, but it is quite clear, it upset you.

Huh?

Butthurt regarding avatars? I can't see why I shouldn't be happy using a cartoon character who FAMOUSLY* rode a bike as my avatar, while you are all serious about yours. Who is obviously feeling butthurt in such a situation?

* you clearly missed this emphasis repeatedly, is it because of the shades you are wearing 24/7 that make you feel you look like your avatar?

People need to remember, what goes on the internet, generally stays on it.

Great! But is that why you are too shy to stay on topic, given it is obvious you are avoiding the subject of the thread despite being invited to comment, while choosing to put forward random ad hominem arguments, on avatars no less, that only you can understand? So, you were a Team Ukraine cheerleader, weren't you!? Well, imho, if you have changed your mind on that, it is ok to say so, you know. That at least shows you have learnt something, even if it took 3 years.

Or are you still supporting Team Ukraine, hence the butthurt and serious psychological projection?

wow you can read???

I'm going to try and explain this concept in an way you can understand, If Putin or any other person for that matter says he wants to save Russians but coincidently also gains some territory, then the reason it is to ''save his poeple'' is most likely an lie. His rise to power was by lying to it's own people and killing lots of chechen as revenge of a bombing he made up to be their doing.

I just gave you a compliment above for your apparent regained ability to read, only for it to be gone a few lines further. I said he says something else on Western media then in its' own Russian media, his expansionistic view he showed a few times for example right before those fake referendums in parts of Ukraine he then occupied. Most famous with little parts also showed in the west is the hours long ''documentary in which he shows an very old map of Russia not because he didn't have any newer but because his view is ''this is actually ours'' which becomes very clear in that documentary. (and those are not only my views) (this includes Ukraine, Poland, Hungary, Latvia, Estonia, list goes on for quite a bit.)
But also maybe listen to Gorbachev you known the one who ended the sovjet union, his interviews right before his death and how Putin responded to his death.

I do agree with your criticism on blocking the RT channels, but the western view was ''then they can't spread propaganda'' which is in this day and age of course to simplistic, but hey i never said the EU was any good. However said things ae long after that ban so unless you want to accuse the EU of banning the future that might shed something in an for them more positive light, it doesn' work that way.

if i'm litterly quoting something from long after that ban, but yes, i have multiple.

You do not have to educate me on how to acces those sources i have most likely more knowledge on the matter then you.

No they have flown an plain they said was an 6th gen fighter, nothing they showed proofed it had half the abilities. And as we know from Russia and other Chinese projects is that if they can't show the actual abilities it simply can't do them. They just put up a show, for people like you who beleive them at face value. You known they also sell cars that look a lot like for example the Bmw X5 they claim it's even better, more luxerios etc. but if you would actually drive them(having driven the original before) you would immediately notice you're being lied too.

I said the Chinese stole the F35 blueprints and made an worse version of it(which is an totally different project then their ''gen6'' ) I never said i was fan of the F35, just that the chinese copy was performing not as good as the original. (not my opinion there are several sites who analyse military ariplanes who came to this conclusion, along with the conclusion that the gen6 aircarft is most likely fake.

[/QUOTE]

Regarding the planes, sounds like you have been on to many "cope" sites!

Do you think the US Air Force Chief of Staff, the Assistant Secretary of the US Air Force for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, and the Secretary of the US Air Force couldn't tell the difference? OR they would lie to pass up the opportunity to show the Chinese planes were fake? While them being MAGAed by Musk for being useless?

Regarding cars, you couldn't have picked a worse example.

Since early 2023, China's car export have beaten the Japanese to become World #1 from a standing start in 2020 - didn't you know? There must have been millions of idiot car buyers, but not you somehow?

Meanwhile the German car industry you seem to admire so much is on its knees. Partly because of geniuses like Baerbock, who cozied up to the Yanks by biting the hand that fed her country with cheap gas, and presumably drinking the Kool-Aid you are familiar with?

Have you also not heard Ford's CEO not wanting to give up driving the $30k Xiaomi he imported?

Thing is China is not only the world's sole industrial superpower, they have also become the world's premier scientific superpower. Meanwhile they are producing as many STEM graduates as the rest of the world combined, so the trend can only accelerate - it is practically inevitable that they will dominate nearly the full spectrum of science and industry even in my lifetime.

No amount of cope is going to change such structural inevitability.

Luckily for us, China have never had a crusading, colonising culture / history like we have. Perhaps there is a chance Trump will lead the way to dial back a century of successive Western leaders' condescending, hubristic attitude towards them, for our own good. But I am not holding my breath.




Back on topic - regarding yesterday's unprecedented spectacle in the Oval Office, if not in the world of diplomacy, this looks like a pretty reasonable analysis of what happened, and what is likely to happen next.

 

[HMS_Dave]

Huh?

Butthurt regarding avatars? I can't see why I shouldn't be happy using a cartoon character who FAMOUSLY* rode a bike as my avatar, while you are all serious about yours. Who is obviously feeling butthurt in such a situation?

* you clearly missed this emphasis repeatedly, is it because of the shades you are wearing 24/7 that make you feel you look like your avatar?

while choosing to put forward random ad hominem arguments, on avatars no less, that only you can understand?

Or are you still supporting Team Ukraine, hence the butthurt and serious psychological projection?

This is where it all started

"Self ego stroking"? from HMS_Dave using MacArthur as his avatar? Do I smell a case of psychological projection? ;-)

Egomaniacs don't know when to stop. Formulating a new narrative to support their false assertions...

 

[Psamathe]

Europe & Starmer focusing massively on post peace settlement peacekeeping backstop but isn't this all a bit premature? Does anybody think Putin will listen to Trump and pull his troops out of occupied territories in Ukraine (even ignoring Crimea) and hand everything back to Ukraine ... Does Trump really have enough power over Putin to force through anything close to anything remotely acceptable to Ukraine (and thus also Europe)?

Maybe rather than all these arguments and bust-ups about post-peace backstops politicians should be focusing on the real hurdle of getting Putin to pull out of Ukraine and Ukraine retaining its sovereignty (rather than becomming a Russian controlled puppet).

(Not that there won't need to be peace keepers but Trump will probably feel very differently once he's managed to convince Putin to get out and it's all hanging on some sort of US backstop).

Ian

 

[RecordAceFromNew]

This is where it all started
Egomaniacs don't know when to stop. Formulating a new narrative to support their false assertions...

Poor Dave. Where it started, is obviously what I posted months/years(?) ago - you even dug below up to repost!

Don't know why you bothered to tag me. It is easier to play the person than the ball, isn't it?

Alas, being a Ukraine cheerleader (how did that go?), what I posted obviously gave you butthurt. Now, without anything worthwhile to say on topic despite being invited to do so multiple times, like an alcoholic you are sticking to ad hominem arguments. Isn't it a bit sad and tiresome?

Talking about egomaniacs, have you considered the possibility that without wisdom and accomplishments, whether in life or in a political debate, "Cool shades n all" just make you look pretentious, and hence silly?



Back on topic, this article lists many demonstrable lies and facts, associated with the Oval Office drama, which the warmongering mass media chose to omit mentioning. Surprised?

 

[CXRAndy]

The war mongers, ignore the first 30+ minutes of the meeting between Trump and Zelensky.

 

[CXRAndy]

Russia need not worry about the British army. First sign of trouble they will pick up their frocks and be off hightailing back to Kiev


View: https://x.com/profstonge/status/1896393540672106687?t=Lzb826Mh2oF9ey5HpPhxkA&s=19

 

[Psamathe]

Does anybody know what Trump's "peace plan" actually is? Lots of politicians (including. Trump) talking about Trump's "plan" being the only one around but what actually is it as I can't find anything more detailed than just "Trump's Plan" (a title).

I suspect it's meeting Putin, "Mr. Putin, what do you want?", Putin answers "Everything and more" to which Trump responds "Sounds fine, fair and I can bully the rest of the world into living it". All sorted?

Ian

 

[Milzy]

Does anybody know what Trump's "peace plan" actually is? Lots of politicians (including. Trump) talking about Trump's "plan" being the only one around but what actually is it as I can't find anything more detailed than just "Trump's Plan" (a title).

I suspect it's meeting Putin, "Mr. Putin, what do you want?", Putin answers "Everything and more" to which Trump responds "Sounds fine, fair and I can bully the rest of the world into living it". All sorted?

Ian

Has anybody ever wondered that Trump & Farage could be on Putins pay role?

 

[CXRAndy]

Reports are suggesting USA will switch off taps of aid for Ukraine tomorrow

 

[C R]

Does anybody know what Trump's "peace plan" actually is? Lots of politicians (including. Trump) talking about Trump's "plan" being the only one around but what actually is it as I can't find anything more detailed than just "Trump's Plan" (a title).

I suspect it's meeting Putin, "Mr. Putin, what do you want?", Putin answers "Everything and more" to which Trump responds "Sounds fine, fair and I can bully the rest of the world into living it". All sorted?

Ian

Yep, basically, Zelenskii, drop your trousers, hold your ankles and say thank you afterwards.

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Regarding the planes, sounds like you have been on to many "cope" sites!

Nope, i have multiple sources, none of them obscore, hell even mainstream newsweek has an article explaining why the J-20 is inferior.

Do you think the US Air Force Chief of Staff, the Assistant Secretary of the US Air Force for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, and the Secretary of the US Air Force couldn't tell the difference? OR they would lie to pass up the opportunity to show the Chinese planes were fake? While them being MAGAed by Musk for being useless?

It are quotes without there relevant context but the wording implies they are trying to secure funding, which would make it in their interest to make the chinese thread bigger then it is. You make it sound like they where in China able to see and compare but that's not the case that website takes every data China provides as a fact then sees an higher reported top-speed then the F35 and screams ''see the J-20 is better'' but that's one metric and it doesn't really say a lot, F35 and F22 are simply much better because they have far more advanced sensors, tracking systems, agility etc etc. Not only witnessed by the US's data sheet but also by their track record.

Regarding cars, you couldn't have picked a worse example.

Since early 2023, China's car export have beaten the Japanese to become World #1 from a standing start in 2020 - didn't you know? There must have been millions of idiot car buyers, but not you somehow?

Numbers say nothing about quality or demand, but also reading in not your strong point i was talking about stolen designs, in China and China only there are lots of car brands that only exist there because they solely build on stolen western designs with shite quality.

Meanwhile the German car industry you seem to admire so much is on its knees. Partly because of geniuses like Baerbock, who cozied up to the Yanks by biting the hand that fed her country with cheap gas, and presumably drinking the Kool-Aid you are familiar with?

twisting things again, sounds almost deliberate, any evidence that it's solely due to gas? or could maybe possible likely Germany's decision to close their Nuclear power plants, the lack in demand for electric cars(whilst all the big brands are banking on a boom in demand).. have something to do with it?

Have you also not heard Ford's CEO not wanting to give up driving the $30k Xiaomi he imported?

So being a CEO doesn't always give you good taste or decisions

Thing is China is not only the world's sole industrial superpower, they have also become the world's premier scientific superpower. Meanwhile they are producing as many STEM graduates as the rest of the world combined, so the trend can only accelerate - it is practically inevitable that they will dominate nearly the full spectrum of science and industry even in my lifetime.

I guess you are like 18 or something? Reports like this are nothing new, the problem is not the gradutates, the problem(for China) is that those poeple prefer to live somewhere free where they are not forced to install and use the goverment looks over your shoulder app and things like that.
Also have you ever compared China before and after the communitic people party? they went downhill

No amount of cope is going to change such structural inevitability.

dream on until the dream come true right?

Luckily for us, China have never had a crusading, colonising culture / history like we have. Perhaps there is a chance Trump will lead the way to dial back a century of successive Western leaders' condescending, hubristic attitude towards them, for our own good. But I am not holding my breath.

The current Chinese government(well their precessors) killed everything in their way to get their communistic superstrate. It would however harm China more then it would deliver to go on the war path.
Doesn't mean their intentions might be any better

Back on topic - regarding yesterday's unprecedented spectacle in the Oval Office, if not in the world of diplomacy, this looks like a pretty reasonable analysis of what happened, and what is likely to happen next.

It was a pre-planned staged outrage, somehow i don't think your analysis is correct. I did show how deep Putin is in Trumps mind. Trump seems to be completely Putins B*tch

 

[dutchguylivingintheuk]

Does anybody know what Trump's "peace plan" actually is? Lots of politicians (including. Trump) talking about Trump's "plan" being the only one around but what actually is it as I can't find anything more detailed than just "Trump's Plan" (a title).

I suspect it's meeting Putin, "Mr. Putin, what do you want?", Putin answers "Everything and more" to which Trump responds "Sounds fine, fair and I can bully the rest of the world into living it". All sorted?

Ian

The general line so far i have heard/read is that Putin gets to keep whatever he has stolen now and then there would be peace or something, and then there would be a buffer zone with Nato troops, and those bufferzones primarly go trought Ukraine's land.
It's like Vance and Trump bent extra deep for Putin.. sorry for the mental image

 

[CXRAndy]

What a quandary for the EU

They're funding both sides of the Ukraine/Russia war. Buying Russian oil, gas and supplying arms to the Ukrainian forces.

Which side do you think the EU will go with, fuel or bullets